Zo
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Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
Rebuildin my home studio , need to know witch length of usb 2 will not introduce more latency than actual regular cables for midi devices (1.3meter)
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ohhey
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 15:44:18
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I don't think the speed of USB 2 varis based on cable length, I think it's the same no matter what cable you use. It either works or not. There are extenders you can get if you go beyond the length that works.
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Tom F
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 16:00:58
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since the signal is digital the eventuality of dropouts in the data flow will likely increase with extensive cable lenght - as far as i know a 5 meter usb cable should not alter the datatransfer... definitely there are no quality differences via cable lenght - if it works it works - so there is no use of buying ultrashort cables or crap like that ... on the other hand you could decide to be a freak and buy one ogf those - hahaha http://www.locus-design.com/interconnect.html
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 17:00:06
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I dont know why, but 16 feet is stuck in my head. Ouchhhhh!!!!!!
Cj
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Dude
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 17:09:34
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The USB 2.0 specification requires cable delay to be less than 5.2 ns per meter (192,000 km/s, which is close to the maximum achievable speed for standard copper cable). This allows for a 5 meter cable.
Dude
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Zo
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 17:19:47
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thks alll for the infos so i'm going for 2 or 3 meter without stress ...
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 21:30:46
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thks alll for the infos so i'm going for 2 or 3 meter without stress ... Max length for a single USB cable is 15'. I'd recommend using good quality cable... as I've seen poor quality USB cables cause noise issues.
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Zo
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/29 22:20:01
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15' = 15 feet or inches ?
when you say noise issue is it because of lenght or magnetic poor protection ?
i sualy take monster cables because of their good magnetic protection ....
thks Jim for the input
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lespaulman35
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 01:55:43
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15' is 15 feet. About 5 meters.
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...wicked
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 02:14:54
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There's a Stonehenge joke in here somewhere.
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lespaulman35
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 02:54:54
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Tom F
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:05:55
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Jim Roseberry
thks alll for the infos so i'm going for 2 or 3 meter without stress ...
Max length for a single USB cable is 15'.
I'd recommend using good quality cable... as I've seen poor quality USB cables cause noise issues.
how should noise be added into a digital transmission format - there can only be dropouts nothing else...
but on the other hand - eventully if you have a very poorly constructed cable from the chineese communists then you get noise from improper shielding at the connectors... i once boght a cable from one of those bastard firms that i guess was crafted out of chemical waste - it kept smelling toxic til the day i threw it away...
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Tom F
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:06:58
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...wicked
There's a Stonehenge joke in here somewhere.
sometimes its not about the size....its also the performance...
and the performance was ruined by one of the dwarfs who stumbeled ;-)
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edentowers
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:11:52
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I've been using 5 metre (15 feet) USB cables for some time now with no problems.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:17:41
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Zo
15' = 15 feet or inches ?
when you say noise issue is it because of lenght or magnetic poor protection ?
i sualy take monster cables because of their good magnetic protection ....
thks Jim for the input
The limitations are not because of shielding but cable capacitance. Digital signals are supposed to be a perfect square or pulse wave with straight up and down transitions from digital zero to one. Capacitance will round off those edges and give some electronics problems in trying to figure out the true edge and that leads to errors. All cables have capacitance, and the longer the cable, the more capacitance you will have. This is one of the biggest problems in systems that strictly use edge detection for determining logic states. A better way would be to use level detection. Been there, designed that, built it and it works.
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Jind
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:18:54
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Everything you ever wanted to know about USB.org
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:45:53
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how should noise be added into a digital transmission format - there can only be dropouts nothing else... I've seen this first hand... Noticed an odd noise in my system (buzzing/hash) that wasn't there previously. Finally chased the noise down to my Motif ES. Wasn't the audio cables... Yanked the cheap USB cable... and the noise was gone. Switched USB cables... noise never returned Same cheap cable also caused noise issues with a TonePort UX2.
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Tom F
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 08:46:13
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jackn2mpu
Zo
15' = 15 feet or inches ?
when you say noise issue is it because of lenght or magnetic poor protection ?
i sualy take monster cables because of their good magnetic protection ....
thks Jim for the input
The limitations are not because of shielding but cable capacitance. Digital signals are supposed to be a perfect square or pulse wave with straight up and down transitions from digital zero to one. Capacitance will round off those edges and give some electronics problems in trying to figure out the true edge and that leads to errors. All cables have capacitance, and the longer the cable, the more capacitance you will have.
This is one of the biggest problems in systems that strictly use edge detection for determining logic states. A better way would be to use level detection. Been there, designed that, built it and it works.
its the same as in the 75 ohm spdif cables - if they are to long then tehre will be an interference from some amount of the squres being reflected at end and beginning of the cable and getting into partial cancellation - but AGAIN never will this cause any NOISE just dropouts - if there is noise than it has nothjing to do with a deteriorated digital signel but with something else
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Amazed
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 09:55:32
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Zo
Rebuildin my home studio , need to know witch length of usb 2 will not introduce more latency than actual regular cables for midi devices (1.3meter)
Mmmmm, don't know why but google sticks in my head.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 10:03:55
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info@tomflair.com
jackn2mpu
Zo
15' = 15 feet or inches ?
when you say noise issue is it because of lenght or magnetic poor protection ?
i sualy take monster cables because of their good magnetic protection ....
thks Jim for the input
The limitations are not because of shielding but cable capacitance. Digital signals are supposed to be a perfect square or pulse wave with straight up and down transitions from digital zero to one. Capacitance will round off those edges and give some electronics problems in trying to figure out the true edge and that leads to errors. All cables have capacitance, and the longer the cable, the more capacitance you will have.
This is one of the biggest problems in systems that strictly use edge detection for determining logic states. A better way would be to use level detection. Been there, designed that, built it and it works.
its the same as in the 75 ohm spdif cables - if they are to long then there will be an interference from some amount of the squres being reflected at end and beginning of the cable and getting into partial cancellation - but AGAIN never will this cause any NOISE just dropouts - if there is noise than it has nothjing to do with a deteriorated digital signel but with something else
Totally different process going on. The only way you get reflections in a closed system is an impedance mismatch between the transmitter, receiver and cable. If they are not all at 75 ohms then you'll get reflections. Length doesn't enter into reflections in a properly matched system. Simple rf theory. Noise in a 'closed' system can come from improper shielding, a break in the shielding, an unshielded component of the system, or just noise self-generated inside the system. Switching power supplies are notorious for generating rf hash, and most, if not all computer power supplies use a switching power supply. Why even use a switching power supply? Less weight and less space - you don't need the huge transformers (with the associated weight of the iron core) like you do in a traditional, old-style linear regulated power upply.
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ohhey
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 10:30:57
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...wicked
There's a Stonehenge joke in here somewhere.
LOL !!  I know... that's what I was just thinking.
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Tom F
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 10:52:35
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thanks for clarification - so i just mixed two things together - atz least it sounded plausible to me ;-)
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Zo
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 11:44:48
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Thks a lot for those infos , and i prefer for everything concerning real specific use to go on the dedicated forum than google ....i know the theory as i had a lot of hours of computer ntegration durin my study (master degre in computin) , so i know that the lenght is a critical issue except for opitcal if i remeber well)
going for monster cable just for the peace of mind, usin actually provided usb cables , probably chinese and it's runnin without noise and latency issue (by the way be easy on chinese people , they're just workas who do what they 're asked to do , that's all , the culprit are "us", cause we alwayz want tha max margin (when i say us , i mean our beloved firms....)
Always great to have real experience , cause even if i don't have problem (buzz) i know that if i have one , after checkin my ground and audio cables , i will also check usb and firwire !!
thks again partners !!
Zo
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edentowers
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 12:07:29
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Zo
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Re:Max usb 2 cable length before introducin latency ?
2009/10/30 12:32:35
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thks , will try it 
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