fgenchi
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Me, my wife's husband and myself
Hi all, I use to write and harmonize songs that (hopefully) some choir or small groups will sing. For now, I'd like to have them sung by myself, Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass , just to hear how they sound... Let's forget the soprano . My question is: How can I get a good mix with 4 "identical" voices? I guess that I should play with panning and EQ, maybe trying to give each one a slightly different "footprint" along the frequency spectrum. Am I right? Do you know any other easier way to achieve this result? I'm using a large-diafragm cond. mic (SE2200a), Mackie XDR2 pre (802 VLZ3 mixer) and Echo Audiofire. I'm pretty satisfied of the quality and dynamics of each track, so I'd like to preserve these aspects and not to misuse compressors. Please, disclose some of your tricks... Thanks Francesco
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Philip
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/10 22:23:54
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1) Vocal exercises (to reach those octaves) ... this is by far the least cheezy, IMHO. In 20 minutes of vocal warm-up you might be able to accomplish Alto, Tenor, and Bass (with varying dynamics of course). Kevin Kayehl has done this with a hymn or 2; he sounds astonishing to my ears. -- Who needs the barbershop quartet? 2) VSTs have been written specifically to give "identical voices", they have limited trial versions, but they sound a bit cheezy, IMHO. You can google them, no doubt. 3) Panning each vox as a double sounds great: possibly 50% to 100%. You are unlimited with panning (no rules), IMHO. SpaceDuck has demonstrated wide vox panning for a 'singular voice' ... in his piece MagicShow. He keeps his falsettos more medially panned. His wide-chorus effect is aimed at dramatization of the vox (filling your head, etc.). -- Of course '4 persons' might be 'hard-panned' to separate them with little chorus ... but each 'person' needs some chorus effects (multiple takes, EQ changes, and pre-delays (while avoiding reverb mush). 4) Your signal chain seems more-than-adequate. 5) You will need to do 10-12 takes of Alto, Tenor and Bass. 6) I suppose you might need extensive manual compression (volume envelopes) to sweetly perfect your constructs.
post edited by Philip - 2008/10/10 22:32:20
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fgenchi
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/11 06:17:14
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Thank you Philip. I tried, some months ago, one of those trial-version plugins that make one voice act as a whole section. I agree it was cheezy, didn't like it. I think my first step now is to have a good mix for 4 single voices. I'm not sure I understood this: ORIGINAL: Philip 3) Panning each vox as a double sounds great: possibly 50% to 100%. You are unlimited with panning (no rules), IMHO. SpaceDuck has demonstrated wide vox panning for a 'singular voice' ... in his piece MagicShow. He keeps his falsettos more medially panned. His wide-chorus effect is aimed at dramatization of the vox (filling your head, etc.). I think I'll have to learn how to use chorus without having a robot-like result. Francesco
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Lanceindastudio
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/11 06:23:01
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philip wtf you talkin bout?
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Guitarhacker
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/11 11:49:10
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Francisco, I do this all the time... just sing, record the tracks dry..no FX, no verb, send all the vox tracks to a sub buss for vox and insert a light...very ligh reverb...this will help to blend the vox a bit. Singing all the parts with one voice... no problem, since the parts are all singing different notes, they will be seperate... use a little panning...lead vox in the center, other vox ..one right 50% one left 50% the third BGV off center just a bit. Send the lead track vox directly to the master buss...don't let it mix & blend with the BGV tracks... Having one voice doing these parts will sound like a family band... kinda like the Gatlin Bros from country fame...also known as sibling harmonies. Check out my soundclick site: Hanging Around & Fall Down & chorus on Corridors.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2008/10/11 11:52:38
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krizrox
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/11 12:07:48
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There are so many different ways to approach this. I'm assuming the question was more along the lines of "How can I do this with the tools I have available?" and not so much "What can I go out and buy that will help me acheive my goals?". You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned EQ and panning. I think EQ especially is going to be your best friend here. The problem with singing all the parts yourself is that no matter what you do (unless you're really good at disguising your voice) all the parts are going to have a simialar tonal characteristic. When you start layering thos parts the frequencies will start to build-up making it sound unnatural and possibly harsh. So you need to EQ each track differently so they all sit together. Using different mics and signal chains helps a lot but if you don't have that luxury try singing in different rooms or different distances from the mic. Reverb treatments can help to push some of the tracks more in the background and some more up front (just like a real choir). Antares makes some tools that allow you to change the gender and throat modelling. They work really well actually. Used in the right way, you can get excellent results Have fun!
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Philip
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/11 21:21:07
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ORIGINAL: fgenchi I'm not sure I understood this: ORIGINAL: Philip 3) Panning each vox as a double sounds great: possibly 50% to 100%. You are unlimited with panning (no rules), IMHO. SpaceDuck has demonstrated wide vox panning for a 'singular voice' ... in his piece MagicShow. He keeps his falsettos more medially panned. His wide-chorus effect is aimed at dramatization of the vox (filling your head, etc.). Francesco (Sorry about the confusion. 'Must be the podiatrist in me). Listen to MagicShow Part 1 (to instantly appreciate ... http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=761671&songID=6613672). This is not the norm according to most of us. But it is quite dramatic to my ears (... not boring like a lot of my pieces ) SD (http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=1503494) states: 2 Vocals low: (100%)L & (100%)R 2 Vocals mid: (100%)L & (100%)R 2 Vocals falsetto: (50%)L & (50%)R - I'd advise against hard panning falsetto unless yours sounds really good! 2 Cello: (100%)L & (100%)R 3 Guitars at the end: (100%)L, (0%)C, (100%)R IOWs: It is a common norm for a solo singer to be panned center. Multiple singers are generally panned off-center. Of course, Lance can probably give you some better ideas. Ask him.
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Randy P
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/13 13:43:13
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Francesco, On a song I just finished I got a pretty cool chorus of voices by recording the same part on the same track 4 times. Then it was just a matter of blending the volume of the tracks together. It came out so lush, that I didn't find reverb or chorus effects necessary. You can hear it on my soundclick page below. Its called "Run". Pay attention to the second part of the chorus as that part features the higher harmony parts, more so than the first part. Randy
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mcourter
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/15 15:55:43
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Here's how I solved the problem of using only my own voice and the attendant homogeneity that results: I persuaded my girlfriend to sing backup for me. Try it with your wife. Sure, she may resist initially, even adamantly, but once she gives in, she's yours. There are few things a woman loves as much as the sound of her own voice (i'll brace myself for the verbal abuse I'm bound to get for that comment). Once Stephanie heard herself singing in a mix, she was hooked. Now I have another vocal track to add to my own, giving me some element of variety. Sure, I can sing it better than she does, and I can always count on myself to be available, but now that she's involved she has a good understanding of why I love to record, and that gets me more leeway.
A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2 Unbridled Enthusiasm My music: www.Soundclick.com/markcourter
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Tom Riggs
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/18 00:32:16
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I get my wife to join in too. If I give her a little gentle coaching she can do a pretty good job if the part is in her range. If its not there is always v-vocal. Anyway back to the point on 2 of the songs I've done recently is get her to record several takes of the part. Once she gets a good take I keep it and have her sing along with it. After a time or two she gets very consistent and I keep the best 3 or 4. Then I do the same thing to harmony parts that I sing. then for each part I use either v-vocal or audio snap to tighten up the timing..but not too much. Then I pan each take a little different for each part and set levels for each take within each part. Once each part blending nicely then I work on blending them together. Now I have waht sounds like 12-16 singers standing in a group. Another thing to try is Put some of the seperate takes through v-vocal not to correct the pitch but to slightly modify the formant. That will give each take a little different voice. Most of all have fun and try different things till you find something you like.
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Mamabear
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/18 18:09:52
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There are few things a woman loves as much as the sound of her own voice No abuse from me, but I sure wish it were true in my case! Maybe some day! I need more than just Melodyne. Glad it worked for you though!
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mcourter
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/20 10:03:26
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ORIGINAL: Mamabear There are few things a woman loves as much as the sound of her own voice No abuse from me, but I sure wish it were true in my case! Maybe some day! I need more than just Melodyne. Glad it worked for you though! Whew! Thanks for letting me skate on that one, Janet. My girl isn't the greatest singer, but since I'm only a home amateur anyway, it's worth sacrificing a little quality in order to get her involved. And she has a blast doing it (when she stops cleaning long enough to sing for me)
A few guitars, a couple of basses, a MIDI controller, a mandolin, a banjo, a mic, PodFarm2 Unbridled Enthusiasm My music: www.Soundclick.com/markcourter
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Mamabear
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/20 19:38:28
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LOL. After I wrote that I realized you probably meant a woman likes to talk. And yes, that's true of some. It's true of a few men I know too. Anyway, yes, that's cool if she likes to be involved. And if she cleans too--sounds like a winner.
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Philip
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/21 21:19:28
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Excellent idea; I got the 10y/o kid on one song but should have vocal coached him more ... as V-vocal could not correct the register-cracks. Maybe I can get a little more composing done by using them more. Amazing how 10-15 minutes vocal coaching clears my family's voxes, transforming their voices from cr&p to angelic chime, almost.
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kwgm
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/21 22:45:59
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I have to say that when read the subject line of this thread, I thought it was going to be a very different kind of post. I'm glad I was wrong!
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Truckermusic
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RE: Me, my wife's husband and myself
2008/10/24 14:36:09
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these are all very good techniques.............I am going to have to try some of them my self............... Cliff
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