Melodyne Losing Sync With Sonar - Confirmed

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jb101
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2014/01/08 14:37:57 (permalink)

Melodyne Losing Sync With Sonar - Confirmed

All of a sudden Melodyne doesn't line up with Sonar using Region FX in Sonar X3d.
 
It's been working fine all day (and since X3 came out), but now, if I create a Region FX on some audio, none of the notes or bar lines match up.  If the cursor is on the beat in Sonar, then it shows slightly before the beat in Melodyne.  All the notes show early in Melodyne too.
 
I have tried it in several projects, and it's the same.  It appears not to be a constant number of ticks/beats, but may be a constant length of time, as it is more noticeable visibly in tracks with a higher BPM.
 
I'm sure it's pilot error, but I can't fathom it.  Any ideas, please?
post edited by jb101 - 2014/01/31 20:13:26

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    Philip
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:21:11 (permalink)
    Actually, I've had the same bug ... the note-blob 'lines up' a quarter measure or so ahead of the sound (... while in older versions (of Melodyne) 'twas the opposite --hahahaha!).  (I forgot if X3c or X3d was involved ... I may now be sorry I updated to X3d  (sorry cake-man) :):):) )
     
    My instinctive work-around is to shrink the Melodyne blobs horizontally and make desperado fixes only.  Melodyne experimentation-pioneering is grossly overrated, IMHO, JMO. ... especially with Melodyne Essentials.  Weaning off the addictive Melodyne is difficult for me, as my vocs are complete losers without it.
     
    I wonder if this problem occurs with 'Editor 2 region fx' (which I'm considering for the 'psychedelic plethora').
     
    (I've learned to live with Melodyne Editor-1 errors and crashes and consider this new bug a 'livable' issue for region fx (the whole 'Cher thing is several back-burners and fading))
     
     
    post edited by Philip - 2014/01/08 16:03:27

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    mettelus
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:27:49 (permalink)
    Melodyne suggests in their manual to exit/reopen the host program periodically to recycle RAM. I am not sure if this is applicable to your case, but is something to try.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:28:09 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply, Philip.
     
    Melodyne has worked perfectly here until today.  I'm not sure we have the  same issue.
     
    For me, it is simply as is the Melodyne "grid" is off, a fraction "further on" than Sonar's.
     
    Otherwise I have been extremely happy with X3d, and am still in awe of Melodyne and ARA integration.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:31:07 (permalink)
    Thanks, Mettelus - good advice.
     
    In this instance I have tried everything that I can think of, including shutting down and re-booting the computer, as well as doing the same to the interface.

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    Splat
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:47:19 (permalink)
    I ran a quick test with X3D, nothing with these steps... So something else is going on here or my steps to repro need revising...
     
    STEPS:
    New X3D project
    Set up a new audio track with a vocal.
    Clone track (2 identical audio tracks).
    Play both tracks and observe no phasing.
    Select the second track and then do: RegionFX -> Melodyne -> Convert to RegionFX
    Play both tracks.
     
    Actual
    No phasing (timing perfect).

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    mettelus
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 15:56:45 (permalink)
    How I interpreted this (and jb please correct me if I am wrong), is that you have been using region FX and suddenly it started acting as in the OP (seems like the same session), and it has been since.
     
    The reason this concerns me (greatly), is it comes across as some "setting" sporadically took on a permanent change. Now comes the great hunt for "why" and "how to change it back," which is a royal pain.
     
    It would be worth sending Celemony an email directly and ask them if they have any insight. The ARA integration has two sides to the fence.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 16:03:06 (permalink)
    Thanks again, Mettelus, you have it spot on.  It's as if I hit a shortcut key that effected Sonar/Melodyne globally.  As you say, the hunt is on.
     
    I may email Celemony, as yo suggest.  They seem very good.
     
    @Alex - of course you can't repro it, for heaven's sake.  How pointless..  Do you read the threads you reply to?  How on earth did you try to repro the issue?  It's laughable..
    post edited by jb101 - 2014/01/08 17:15:35

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    Philip
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 16:55:00 (permalink)
    +1 about the excellence per se.
     
    FWIW, I am *now* working 'correctly' (the Melodyne line is 'on the correct blob' during playback) after several tests with X3D and M. Essentials ... on my Dell desktop X3D.  
     
    OTOH, I have not re-tested with my lap-top X3D yet.  (It may have been the lappy that gave me problems, I forget)
     
    (Off topic: I'm still sore tempted to upgrade to Editor 2 ($49 for my 'Editor-1 upgrade' ... til end of month) ... hoping it will be worth the risks benefits and complications in 3D X)

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 17:14:00 (permalink)
    Editor is amazing - well worth the upgrade.  I upgraded soon after getting X3 and it lived up to my expectations.
     
    I recommend reading the manual thoroughly, and watching Celemony's videos.  Eli's Groove3 videos are great, too.
     
    It is a very powerful piece of software, but you really need to learn how it works to get the most out of it and not be disappointed.

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    Philip
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 19:00:53 (permalink)
    'Probably get it then; thanks for validation about it working in X3.  ('Saw 6 videos already)
     
    So you are using Editor (vs Essential) ... hope your problem is not specific to Editor.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 19:04:01 (permalink)
    Not specific to Editor, AFAIK.
     
    Has been working perfectly here until just now.

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    Splat
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 19:11:15 (permalink)
    I'm using Editor and I went through all the Groove 3 tutorial exercises over the last few days. So far nothing reproducible but I'll keep my eye on it.

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    konradh
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 20:47:34 (permalink)
    Is there a tempo change in the project?

    Konrad
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    sharke
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/08 21:40:20 (permalink)
    Weird things can also happen with the positioning of your Melodyne clips if you insert measures in a project.

    James
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    Philip
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/09 00:49:34 (permalink)
    Thanks Jb. It's great to hear your validation! I just ordered Melodyne editor 2.0 and am watching it download here at a motel. It's very slow here.

    It's great to have this program that I need ... And hopefully to be able to do a lot of surreal time, melodic, and loudness functions that the videos inspired.

    Interestingly, I've never had the latest versions crash sonar. The program has actually suggested for me to change my sampling rate which helped.

    Utmost blessings/regards,

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/09 18:04:44 (permalink)
    Hope you enjoy it, Philip.  I have found it to be a remarkable piece of software.
     
    Which makes it all the more frustrating to have this strange issue.
     
    It makes using Melodyne useless to quantize notes.  I am sure I remember someone having a similar issue.
     
    Any further help will be greatly appreciated.

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    MorganT
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/17 08:16:50 (permalink)
    I have the identical issue.  I'm using X3d and Melodyne Editor 2.  I have a rate of 142 bpm, don't know if a faster tempo affects it.  I'm using Melodyne to true up timing on vocals.  I mostly do it by ear, I'm not quantizing so cannot comment on how it affects that. 
     
    When I need to align to the beat visually, I've been lining up the Now marker in the Track View at the top of my screen to the beat I want, then using the time marker in Melodyne as the reference to drag my note beginning or end to match.  It's visually not lining up with the same beat on the Melodyne grid, but in reality it IS aligning to the correct beat in Sonar (confirmed visually with the waveform after closing Melodyne.)  Not really much of a pain, since I keep the Track View open at the top of my screen.  I just have to remember to refrain from using the "obvious" time grid in Melodyne.
     
    I upgraded to Editor 2 immediately, so I haven't used Essential and can't comment on if it was there before - but I noticed this issue immediately, so it doesn't seem to be an "I accidentally turned something off" issue.  And it's there all the time, even after re-booting.
     
    It seems I remember having the same time-grid alignment issue at some point in V-Vocal too?
     
    Despite this isse, I LOVE Melodyne.  Absolutely worth every penny from my perspective, I've been giddy just using it.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/30 17:34:06 (permalink)
    This issue has been confirmed and the culprit tracked down, it seems.
     
    If anyone wants to know the details then feel free to PM me.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/30 19:12:46 (permalink)
    It seems to make Melodyne's Quantise Function in Sonar unusable most of the time.
     
    I am surprised that so few people have yet come across it.  It is now "being investigated by our development team",     which is good.

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/01/31 20:12:14 (permalink)
    So, it would appear that this issue is universal.
     
    If you are using Melodyne with ARA in Sonar, be careful to check that any notes quantised with the Quantise Macro, or manually aligned with Melodyne's grid are actually "in time" with your project.
     
    The discrepancy is cumulative and will appear  greater with each measure.  Nothing will appear visually untoward  in Sonar unless you bounce to clip, so you will have to listen for it.
     
    It is also tempo dependent.

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    MorganT
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/01 15:57:09 (permalink)
    Thanks for the update and feedback, hopefully they'll get this corrected soon.
     
    I haven't used the quantise function, I'm doing manual work so I haven't experienced the degree of frustration others probably have.  I've pretty much been splitting my tracks into short clip segments (vocal comp'ing) - I align my Now Time marker in Sonar where I want it, and use that as my reference in the Melodyne editor.  The time markers in Melodyne don't align, but it allows me to tighten vocals together pretty readily.

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    groovey1
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/10 00:21:28 (permalink)
    I'm also seeing this regularly in Melodyne Editor. I take it there's no solution at the moment?

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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/10 03:14:14 (permalink)
    I have reported this, and according to Cake there is a rounding error in an algorithm that is causing it, and it is now with the development team.

    It appears worse at certain tempos, and increases the further you go into the project. Very few people seem to have noticed it yet, which is surprising.

    Let's hope it's fixed in the next update.
    post edited by jb101 - 2014/02/10 08:58:42

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    groovey1
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/10 13:39:11 (permalink)
    Thanks for the update ... and for blazing the trail on this.
    It's good to know they're working on it. I guess in the meantime, we just use Audiosnap for timing corrections.

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    js516
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/10 16:36:05 (permalink)
    Not sure if this is related, but I noticed if I have multiple clips with Melodyne (Editor ver.)  as region fx, and I have more than one melodyne in the dock, editing in melodyne becomes erratic. Keeping only one  editor open  at a time has kept this from happening again.
     
    Another issue I've noticed is that melodyne does get out of sync with sonar, but when I  undock and redock the editor, that seems to "fix" it.
     
    Again not sure if these are the same issues. Both of these happen when the editor is docked.

    Joe Sera
     
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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/10 18:26:40 (permalink)
    groovey1
    Thanks for the update ... and for blazing the trail on this.
    It's good to know they're working on it. I guess in the meantime, we just use Audiosnap for timing corrections.


    We can still use Melodyne for timing corrections, as MorganT pointed out in post #22. It's a workaround, but it works. It means the quantise macro is no use, but we can correct individual "notes".

    Thank you for your thanks. :-).

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    Katnip
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/11 02:12:18 (permalink)
    I don't know if this is related to the Melodyne problem, but I've had the same problem when using Audio Snap. After using Audio Snap  & bounce-to-clips on a conga track, the wave form does not line up with what I'm hearing. It's fine for most of the track, but about two thirds of the way through the wave froms fall noticeably behind the audio. The track sounds fine, but the wave form is about an eighth of a measure behind, and stays out of sync for the rest of the track. Melodyne has not been used on this track, only Audio Snap.
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    jb101
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/11 03:00:19 (permalink)
    I've not seen that, I'll have a look later, if I get a chance.

    Don't think it is related to the Melodyne/ARA issue, though, but I'll do some digging.

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    wetdentist
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    Re: Melodyne Lost Sync With Sonar 2014/02/23 15:35:28 (permalink)
    i am experiencing this problem right now, with only one region fx clip in existence at once.  i have the newest version of the editor & X3d x64.

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