Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer

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kwyn
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2008/07/25 16:06:00 (permalink)

Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer

I am brand new to this stuff.

I play acoustic guitar and sing (sort of).

Would Melodyne or Autotune help my singing sound better. Mind you, I can be off sometimes by more than a whole step!!!
I am a very bad singer.

I am also new to using music software.

Thanks,
Kwyn
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    DW_Mike
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/25 16:58:22 (permalink)
    Melodyne is great. Download the demo and check it out.

    Mike

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    #2
    kwyn
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/25 18:05:59 (permalink)
    Is it easy to get a terribly sung track in tune? With the click of a few buttons?
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    DW_Mike
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/25 18:53:49 (permalink)
    I guess it really depends just how bad the part is. The best I can say is try it out. The demo's free so it won't cost anything but a little time.
    HERE'S THE LINK

    Mike
    post edited by chefmike8888 - 2008/07/25 19:19:34

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    Philip
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 01:27:31 (permalink)
    Kwyn,
    A little vocal coaching (just a week or 2) or self-teaching texts and U-tubes helped me.

    Ultimately: "Multiple takes" is a singer's friend.

    If you're like me, you'll perform better in studio than live and by cheating (chopping, editting, adhoc lyric rewrites, etc.)
    I'm extremely certain 95% of singers can learn to use their vocal instruments as 'ordinary' if not 'slightly stellar' voxes.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 10:19:29 (permalink)
    kwyn,

    Chefmike is right. Melodyne is about the best one I have used so far. It is basically a one click fix. You can go back in and manually change what you think ought to be different. Give the demo a try I think you'll find it to be everything you would hope it to be.

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    #6
    krizrox
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 10:45:24 (permalink)
    I might offer up another opinion. Melodyne, Auto-Tune, V-Vocal and the like will not help you if you can't sing well. The ironic part is that you need to be able to sing relatively well in order for these tools to really work well. Yes you can do amazing things wil any of them but the farther away from the correct pitch you are the more artificial it's going to sound. Also, none of these tools are going to help you if you can't sing with passion, energy and conviction. You might get your vocal track in tune but it will still suck if it wasn't sung originally with passion or conviction. So my advice is to follow Philips advice and actually learn to sing. Or at least try to learn to sing reasonably well. The better you can sing the better these tools will work.

    Good luck!

    PS - in terms of which tool does the job the best, I might also suggest Melodyne but none of these tools are cheap (relatively speaking). I have Auto-tune and of course V-Vocal and they get the job done well most of the times. But Auto-tune will set you back about $300. You need Sonar Pro to get V-Vocal. Melodyne comes in different flavors depending on how much horsepower you need.

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    nfg182
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 11:01:21 (permalink)
    i agree with larry These toolds can be great but if your really off it will show wsith a bad effect...i kind of like not being able to make abad vocalist good as it push's tiy to sing betterr...and atleast you have to have talant to sound good on a record even if its alittle bit of it...what does everyone think?

    but yeah sorry melodyne is an amazing tool i lopve it i would say 70 or less percent tune automaticly then go over it and see what can make it sound better and tune the indivual notes...i find some notes i have to leave untuned as it sounds like ive dropped terribly out of key and not all vocals are perfect....and thats the way alot of us like it...would a acoustic guitar be the same without the fretnoise...ill leave that to you


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    madratter
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 12:30:29 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: krizrox

    I might offer up another opinion. Melodyne, Auto-Tune, V-Vocal and the like will not help you if you can't sing well. The ironic part is that you need to be able to sing relatively well in order for these tools to really work well. Yes you can do amazing things wil any of them but the farther away from the correct pitch you are the more artificial it's going to sound. Also, none of these tools are going to help you if you can't sing with passion, energy and conviction. You might get your vocal track in tune but it will still suck if it wasn't sung originally with passion or conviction. So my advice is to follow Philips advice and actually learn to sing. Or at least try to learn to sing reasonably well. The better you can sing the better these tools will work.

    Good luck!


    Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. And if you are more than a whole step off, you are not going to be able to use these tools in automatic mode. They will snap to the closest note, and that isn't necessarily going to be where it needs to go.

    To make this worse, some singers are bad not just because they can't sing in tune. They are bad because they have unpleasant overtones in their voice which are not musical. Some peoples voices are just chalk on the chalkboard. If this is the case with you, none of this software is going to help. If you are just out of tune, then it is worthwhile to figure out if you just flat out are tone deaf or if there is someway of setting things up that will help you sing in tune. For example, you might want to try singing to a simple melody track without all the other stuff getting in the way and throwing you off. What will make things easier for you is somewhat individual.
    post edited by madratter - 2008/07/31 12:32:19
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    mcourter
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 14:06:41 (permalink)
    While you're getting used to whichever software you select, don't forget the one thing that is REALLY going to make you sound better: keep singing. All the time. Sing in the car, in the shower, the kitchen. I used to empty rooms with my singing. But today at least people seem to be able to tolerate it. Practice practice practice. And then sell the software to buy a new mic

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    NeuroRon
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 15:10:34 (permalink)
    These tools can also help you in another way. Record your vocal track - go back over it with e.g. Melodyne, looking at the notes (and knowing what the notes are supposed to be) and fix it , making GROSS CHANGES if necessary. This will not be good sounding BUT it will give you a well-pitched track that you can then practice and sing along with for a while. Then go back and do it again (and again if necessary) - your singing will get better - and at some point the tools will be what you need to just making minor improvements in the actual track

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    bitflipper
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/07/31 17:09:50 (permalink)
    Is it easy to get a terribly sung track in tune? With the click of a few buttons?


    Not really. Melodyne, like all of its similar brethren, offers automated correction, but you may be disappointed by the results.

    Pitch-correction is best applied manually, and it's a skill you learn and practice, like using equalizers and compressors.

    The good news is it's easier than becoming a better singer!


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #12
    kwyn
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/08/01 07:24:48 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the feedback and tips. Here's the deal.

    I have nasaly(sp?), flat sounding voice. I can be frequently off by up to a whole step!!! I know because I can hear it when I play the song back. I can play keys and guitar, but for some reason, I flat out miss notes by a lot when singing.

    Also, even when I am dead "on-pitch" my voice sounds nasaly and empty. DOn't know what there is to do about that.

    I did try the demo of Melodyne and have been able to get my vocal tracks right on pitch, but I don't think even if I could sing with perfect pitch, my voice is actually pleasant for others to listen too.

    I'll see if I can find a track or something to listen to if anyone like putting themselves through torture and wants to give advice.
    Warning: you will either laugh or cry. I'll be the first to admit I can't sing.
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    fooman
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/08/01 08:13:23 (permalink)
    I bought Melodyne after trying to use V-vocal for bad singers for a bit. It was hard, and V-vocal has a lot of artifacts compared to Melodyne. So I bought it when a very very bad singer came in and I had to fix it. It took minutes. I had to do some manual work, but it was easy. The band was happy and the peers know nothing of the auto-tuning.
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    Frank Haas
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/08/01 09:19:08 (permalink)
    kwyn, before you said "my voice is actually pleasant for others to listen too", I was thinking that Melodyne will not be the right tool to get the job done..
    for really bad voices, I start shifting the pitch with v-vocal until it gets a kind of synthetic sound.. that works for modern-pop music.. so the more you are off-tune the better
    you could also use a vocoder, highly recommended around here is the "orange vocoder" (http://www.stoffelshome.de/vocoder/prosoniq_orange_vocoder.html) although it's still not what I would expect from a vocoder and I think it's a bit expensive (only tried the demo). Sonars Pentagon has also a vocoder-option..

    But now as you said you don't sound that bad.. there is this Helion device called "VoiceTone Correct" (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VTCorrect/), you might want to try that when you pass by one.
    It will show you how much you are off pitch, the only problem (besides probably many others) is that the device might jump to the false note when you are too much out of tune, but it might be a good tool to practice your vocal skills. There are some videos that you can find here: http://www.voicetonepedals.com/correct.html
    I like the idea that it works realtime, so you could even use it on stage (that's what I am looking to do, but I haven't used the Helicon myself yet)
    And +1 to what Larry said.
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    kwyn
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/08/01 10:03:55 (permalink)
    EDIT:

    What I meant to say was that my voice, even if it is on key in perfect pitch, is still NOT that pleasant.

    I don't know much of vocoders etc..., I like to sing singer/songwriter type stuff like Jack Johnson, Jimmy Buffett, etc... Probably the worst type of music for someone with a lousy voice
    post edited by kwyn - 2008/08/01 10:27:51
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    Philip
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    RE: Melodyne or Autotune for VERY BAD Singer 2008/08/01 22:01:16 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: kwyn
    I'll be the first to admit I can't sing.

    Not!
    Uh? I'll be the first to admit you can sing! You are a singer, isn't everyone? Even if you supposedly didn't use your vocal instrument (much), you are a singer by nature while talking. Should I laugh or cry when you talk (AKA, sing in 2-3 boring notes)?

    OK, singing is probably the real you and you're self-conscious at first. We all were.

    0.0000002 cents worth of encouragement:
    Those of us that don't sing are like landscape painters that refuse to do portraiture.

    You are a singer if you write songs or create melodies. You’re a singer if all you do is hum or whistle. Incidentally, humming is excellent practice for my getting on pitch. Even if you don’t open your mouth you’re a singer if you do music (dynamics, tempo, and pitch). I stopped entertaining this illogical paradigm.

    IMHO, 'Crappy-Voice' is an illusion, oft coined by the self-righteous, non-biblical, sarcastic, pessimistic souls, or whatever.
    95%+ of persons are born with an emotive-singing-gift; if you're not a singer (for real), you've tossed out a great instrument.
    Unless you've got a real medical problem, you can and must sing lead.

    If it helps, biblically, all persons are commanded to sing.

    Fortuitously, your vox is quickly tunable and a very versatile musical instrument anyway.
    To learn to tune your vox; get a vocal coach or study books/videos a couple hours and you’re OK as a lead singer.

    Several rock stars and many country stars are consistently nasal and off-pitch, but they are beloved emotive singers.
    They all respect their vocal instruments ... mentally or physically.

    IOWs, no-one I know here sings opera (on this forum); all of us are emotive (non-virtuoso) singers.

    Get a condenser-like mic (for your ordinary voice) and a good dry signal chain (pre-Amp/Converters), and a couple of bass traps.
    You will quickly realize how emotive and excellent your singing instrument truly is..

    Now, you may need other instruments to 'sing'. So many excellent songs don't even have words. So I may be wrong in my theories above.

    But mainstream adults seem to enjoy simple strong words (lyrics) with reasonable pitch-correction, tempo, consistent dynamics, and a lot of emotion. They oft edify, thrill, comfort, etc.
    post edited by Philip - 2008/08/01 22:43:38

    Philip  
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