Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal

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jrop
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2013/10/01 15:21:14 (permalink)

Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal

So I heard that V-Vocal is no longer shipping with X3, and I'm just starting to think about switching to Melodyne or Autotune for vocal correction/FX.
 
I've heard that Melodyne's engine is superior to AT's, but just from looking at it (e.g., watching YouTube videos, etc.), it looks a lot more painstaking to use than V-Vocal.  One of the things I really liked about V-Vocal was all of the different drawing tools (pencil, line, etc.).  It looks to me like Melodyne does not have this (?).  As for Autotune, I can't tell.
 
So my question is: coming from a background of using V-Vocal and getting used to the workflow that it enables, what would you all recommend: Melodyne, Autotune, or even perhaps something different?
 
Thanks!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 15:33:49 (permalink)
I don't know Autotune that well apart from one of he earlier plugs that ONLY offered automatic tuning, but Melodyne Assistant (not Essential that you get with X3) is most comparable to V-Vocal. It has all of the tools you would expect to have if you've used V-Vocal and they work in comparable or equivalent ways.
While it does not have line or pencil tools exactly, you can freely correct pitch, pitch drift, modulation, transition and formants, as well as split notes if you need more "nodes".
I always preferred it over V-Vocal but obviously if you have a different workflow, your mileage may vary.
I assume you're mainly editing vocals?
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jrop
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 15:46:06 (permalink)
Thanks @Sanderxpander.  Yes, I'm mostly (if not exclusively) editing vocals with this.
 
My main workflow consists of manually shifting "nodes" (as you've termed them), and tightening vibrato (to get the more electronic-voice effect).  Rarely do I use the pencil tool, but I would definitely miss the line tool (occasionally I use this to "ramp" up a pitch for effect).  Do you know if this is possible with Melodyne?
 
I'm just trying to figure out if Autotune's "graphical" mode is any better for my needs.  I'm hoping that Melodyne would work, as I know a version of it comes with X3 Studio/Producer...
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jrop
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 15:52:35 (permalink)
So I found this video (an overview of Autotune): and around the 15m mark, it seems to demonstrate that AT would give me more of the tools that I'm used to: antarestech.com/downloads/video/Welcome_to_Auto-Tune_7.mp4
 
Unfortunately for me though, this seems the more expensive option than just sticking with Melodyne..
post edited by jrop - 2013/10/01 16:09:37
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 16:39:45 (permalink)
It would work slightly differently in Melodyne but it's possible. Basically you'd split the note around the place you'd want the ramp to end. Then pitch it up however far you want, and make the transition longer (otherwise, you'd obviously get an abrupt jump). I just tried this and it works fine for me, though of course I can't be completely certain it's exactly what you want.

EDIT: I'm using Melodyne Editor for this, not Essential which comes with Sonar. You'd need at least "Assistant" to edit the transitions, but that's a 100 bucks upgrade from Essential and a lot cheaper than an entirely new Autotune.

EDIT 2: I only just realized I only replied to what seemed to me the more tricky part of what you're used to doing, as I'd never done that before. All the other operations you mention are really simple in Melodyne and for me personally feel more logical than V-Vocal. You'd still need Assistant though.
post edited by Sanderxpander - 2013/10/01 17:55:49
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Skarda
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 21:02:39 (permalink)
V-vocal is king of all. Most flexible due to the pencil tool, reliable, and easy to use. melodyne is very limited with its blobs. yes you can change the curves of the lines, but your very limited on smoothing out rough notes. Also vvocal has the vibrato too, that when used subtley, its can really enhense vocals, specially background stuff. I will not be rushing into X3 solely because of not including vvocal in X3. I already own The big package of Melodyne editor, and can not find any use for it. as I try to tweak things, I would always resort back to vvocal and simply use the pencil/draw tool and fix things within seconds rather than the hours of manipulating and tilting blobs with very little control. errrg, V-vocal in King of all vocal correction tools
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drummaman
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 21:49:58 (permalink)
Agreed - V-Vocal is a great tool to have in the tool box.
 
It'd be fantastic if Roland would release it as a stand-alone program.
That way, we could port tracks out to it (- like using iZotope RX as an editor).
 
Maybe we'll get lucky and Roland will see the light...
 
...or Gibson Research will buy the rights to it...

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doncolga
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 21:58:46 (permalink)
Clearly lots of different thoughts on this.  I haven't used Melodyne in a long time.  My version was for Windows XP 32 bit, so I've not used it since I moved to Windows 7 64 bit, but I personally liked it WAY better than V-vocal and I thought it sounded way better too.  I remember it being really easy to use.  It's one of the reasons I'm updating to X3.  Really looking forward to getting it back in operation.
 
I though I read somewhere that V-vocal could be brought into X3...

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mudgel
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/01 22:12:27 (permalink)
If you have Sonar X2, then you still have access to vvocal through the track fx menu.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 01:56:48 (permalink)
If you've never found the vibrato in Melodyne you haven't been using it right. Splitting notes manually gives you as many exact points as you need and you can repitch or curve them any way you want. I don't think Melodyne is limited at all, quite the opposite. There's a reason Melodyne is bought and used by major studios all over the world. I personally much prefer the single view of Melodyne vs V-Vocal switching when I go from pitch to dynamics. Also, I still find V-Vocal's pitch view confusing sometimes. But those last two are obviously a matter of personal preference. The point is Melodyne can do easily as much as V-Vocal, although sadly they really should've included the Assistant version instead of the Essential one.
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musec03
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 02:09:07 (permalink)
Lots and lots of folks I know praise Melodyne.
I use Auto Tune as my go to editing device
....I'm glad X3 will still access v-Vocal as I like to use it once in a while

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Teds_Studio
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 02:17:23 (permalink)
I'll be another one to chime in here for Melodyne.  I have Melodyne Editor...and in my opinion, it is by far superior to V-vocal for any manipulation that I would ever want to do.  And with it being polyphonic...you can fix a single note in a chord.  It's quite amazing actually.
 
And the vibrato is a cinch to use.  I usually use it to pull excess vibrato out of vocals.

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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 02:43:35 (permalink)
Here are some videos on the Celemony website.  Might give some helpful tips as to what can be done.
 
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=videos

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SvenArne
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 03:11:52 (permalink)
jrop
 what would you all recommend: Melodyne, Autotune, or even perhaps something different?


The ARA integration would seem to give Melodyne a big advantage. Haven't used Autotune since probably 2003





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cparmerlee
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 08:27:02 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
they really should've included the Assistant version instead of the Essential one.



This is marketing.  Neither Cakewalk nor Celemony are in the business of giving stuff away for free.  They aren't charities.  These aren't open source projects.  I don't know what the agreement is between the two companies, but Celemony undoubtedly agreed to license Essential for little or no money in order to get access to some of SONAR's user base.  That only works if a significant percentage of users buy the upgrade to Assistant or Editor.  I'm on the fence.  In reality, Essential will do almost everything I really need to do, but after doing the 30-day trial of Editor, I really miss the pieces that are not part of Essential.  So I have to make a decision whether to put my money on a hardware upgrade, upgrade Melodyne, or save that money for Finale 2014, which will be out in a few weeks.

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codamedia
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 08:57:37 (permalink)
In my opinion - Autotune vs Melodyne is just a matter of preference. They are both great tools, although you need to learn how to use them to get the most out of them. V-Vocal simply does not sound nearly as good. When I do these types of adjustments, why would I want the sound altered? For that reason v-vocal only has limited use on my recordings.
 
With ARA integration in X3, Melodyne is the route I suggest. You can always upgrade the version if you need more features.
As for V-Vocal, even if it is not included with X3, you can still install it from an earlier version of Sonar and it should work fine.

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Guitarhacker
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 08:59:31 (permalink)
I have Melodyne Editor. (ME)
 
I considered all 3 of the big players .... Autotune, V-Vocal and Melodyne. I did my research and opted to buy ME.
 
My decision was based on the need to fix vocals and other instrument tracks as transparently as possible and leave NO evidence or artifacts behind.
 
ME allows this.  I used to take the easy way out and use the automatic correction in ME. While ME has an "auto correct" function and makes the process fairly quick and painless, the best results are obtainable with manual correction. Yes, it does take longer to go through a vocal track and correct pitch and drift and split notes and make the changes needed manually......however, the result is well worth the time you have to spend. Once you learn the features and how to use them correctly, this manual process goes fairly quick.
 
Too much vibrato in a note... or not enough? ME can fix that.
Note starts flat and slides up or opposite that? ME can fix that.
Note timing is wrong, or starts or ends early/late?  ME can fix that.
One wrong note in a chord? ME can fix that.
Need to move a note only a couple of cents? ME can fix that.
 
And it does it all without leaving artifacts in the music to tell you it was there. ME is quite the program. The functions I use are pretty simple and straightforward. When I watch the video's on the Celemony website, I realize that I am, quite literally, only "scratching the surface" of what this program can actually do.
 
 
 
 

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#17
jrop
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 09:45:02 (permalink)
Well, it's sounding like Melodyne can do what I want it to, but it really looks clunky on the user-interface side of things when I compare it to V-Vocal...maybe that's just me.  It really looks like Autotune 7's graphic mode does what I want, but I really don't want to shell out $400.  Any AT users want to chime in on this?
 
I'd really like to hear from all sides before making a decision.
 
@musec03 want to elaborate on your experience any?
 
@drummaman agreed.  I really wish roland would keep developing this great tool...maybe focus on making it sound better.  The interface was really rock-solid and easy to use/figure out.  (and besides, I have a lot of projects that use it).  I think being able to change a note in a chord is really amazing--and kudos to Melodyne for that--but I just haven't needed that kind of functionality in the kind of music I work on.  I'm just a hobbyist who can't sing on pitch consistently enough who wants a simple tool so that my listeners aren't cringing whenever I start singing (and maybe they do anyway--pitch correction or not).
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 13:59:20 (permalink)
I always had the opposite experience - V-Vocal always seemed to have a terrible user interface to me, after using Melodyne :)
But you're right, you should go with what fits your workflow best and look at it from all sides.
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jrop
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Re: Melodyne or Autotune (from a perspective of using V-Vocal 2013/10/02 14:07:51 (permalink)
@Sanderxpander That's a good point: each person has a workflow they operate most efficiently with, and that's the one you should stick with...that's one reason I haven't switched to Cubase/etc.  Sonar feels like "home" :) (and in this case, so does V-Vocal).
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