Merry Christmas

Sharing a little Handel's Messiah from an annual concert I record for a period Baroque ensemble.
 
Josephson C617set Mains with spherical baffles
Sennheiser MKH8040 choral spots
RME UFX preamps+conversion
Into Samplitue (sorry Sonar)
 
Have a happy holiday!
 
https://soundcloud.com/rm...-for-unto-us-a/s-nGj6R
 
 

Nice!  Wonderful instrumentalists and fabulous chorus.  Can you tell us who the performers are?

Oh my, that's really good. So spacious!
 
Got any snapshots of the session? Was there an audience? Was it recorded in a concert hall or a church? How far away and how high up were the main mics? How were the spot mics set up?
 
I ask these questions because I've never had an opportunity to record this type of performance but I'd really, really like to.

Thanks for the details. Do you take the ceiling height into account when deciding how high to place the microphones, or is it just a matter of how high the booms will reach?
 
And why are string instruments usually recorded from up high, anyway? Seems like the best position would be down at ear level, where people are accustomed to hearing it. Of course, I've never listened to an orchestra from 10' in the air, so maybe it sounds much better up there!
 
 

Thanks for the details. Do you take the ceiling height into account when deciding how high to place the microphones, or is it just a matter of how high the booms will reach?

And why are string instruments usually recorded from up high, anyway? Seems like the best position would be down at ear level, where people are accustomed to hearing it. Of course, I've never listened to an orchestra from 10' in the air, so maybe it sounds much better up there!
 

If i could rent a lifeguard chair and sit right behind the conductor, I certainly would.  I bet it sounds incredible.  
 
There are a couple reasons to mic high.  Most practically, it allows for a better front to back ratio.  If you mic low in the front, the physical projection of sound from the other musicians will be blocked.  It may sound nicely blended in the audience (unless you are sitting in the front row seats which sounds awful), but from a microphone's less forgiving perspective, the front row will be very present and the back very distant.
 
The second reason is physics.  High frequencies, due to refraction, will move up and out away from the musician's warm bodies to cooler air slightly higher up.  Usually 9 feet up right behind the conductor is the orchestra's "sweet spot" for stereo miking.    Of course that varies depending on the room and the setup.  Too low sounds dull and muddy, too high sounds harsh and washy.  
 
Since orchestras usually perform in rooms with high ceilings and hopefully very good acoustics,  a high microphone setup usually works.  For a smaller rooms or 8ft high ceiling studios, you for sure want to avoid getting too close to any flat surface.  
 

Whew, fantastic job Daniel! How many tracks did you wind up having for this?
 
Just a question out of curiosity, but do you sometimes hear the vocals totally blowing the rest of the orchestra away? That's not a shot at your fine work....I've just never done anything as big as that and just wonder if it's something you'd automate or leave as it is. It sounds great to me no matter what, I just heard the vocals lashing out a bit to where I lost the music behind and was curious how or if you purposely handle that in this situation.
 
I've done mostly orchestra's for schools but never a choir and an orchestra. You sincerely did a fabulous job and I thank you for sharing it. Please don't take my comments the wrong way, I'm honestly trying to pick your brain a little here in case I'm ever faced with something like this. :) Great quality recording here! Happy Holidays!
 
-Danny

Just a question out of curiosity, but do you sometimes hear the vocals totally blowing the rest of the orchestra away?

 
I suppose it is rather vocal heavy for my taste as well, but there are a couple reasons for that.  One is Messiah is really a 2 1/2 hour vocal work with some orchestra accompaniment.  So it is rather appropriate, or "in character" maybe, to have the choir take over the balance from time to time.  There is not too much going on in the orchestra to focus on really.  Mostly staccato continuo chords and the occasional string swell.   If it were Beethoven 9 or Carmina Burana the balance would certainly be more balanced between the two.  In most cases I'd say an 80/20 ratio between mains and spots is what I shoot for.  This was more like 60/40.  
 
The second reason is because I know from past experience the director will want it that way.  I have found that choral directors disapprove when the orchestra is too prominent.  Who knows, maybe he'll change his mind and I'll get to remix it.  
 
I don't do too much in terms of automation.  It was only 4 channels, so there is not much possible in terms of changing the natural balance, not that I would try that unless there were major problems.  I did turn up the spots about 2dB during the solo voice arias and back down for the choir.  

rumleymusic

Just a question out of curiosity, but do you sometimes hear the vocals totally blowing the rest of the orchestra away?

 
I suppose it is rather vocal heavy for my taste as well, but there are a couple reasons for that.  One is Messiah is really a 2 1/2 hour vocal work with some orchestra accompaniment.  So it is rather appropriate, or "in character" maybe, to have the choir take over the balance from time to time.  There is not too much going on in the orchestra to focus on really.  Mostly staccato continuo chords and the occasional string swell.   If it were Beethoven 9 or Carmina Burana the balance would certainly be more balanced between the two.  In most cases I'd say an 80/20 ratio between mains and spots is what I shoot for.  This was more like 60/40.  
 
The second reason is because I know from past experience the director will want it that way.  I have found that choral directors disapprove when the orchestra is too prominent.  Who knows, maybe he'll change his mind and I'll get to remix it.  
 
I don't do too much in terms of automation.  It was only 4 channels, so there is not much possible in terms of changing the natural balance, not that I would try that unless there were major problems.  I did turn up the spots about 2dB during the solo voice arias and back down for the choir.  

Ah I see, thanks for the reply. Glad you didn't take me the wrong way because this is seriously an awesome recorded piece. I've always wanted to do something like this, but never seem to get the choir part. I've done choirs and orchestras....just never both at the same time. Great work once again.
 
-Danny

I woke up iin a hotel in the french quarter and this is great to listen to with my coffee. :-)

 
Darn, I was going to post a link to another recording I just did a couple weeks ago of a concert called "Java Bach" when I read this, but the group hasn't released it on Instantencore.com yet.  Stay tuned for the clever comeback....

bitflipper
Thanks for the details. Do you take the ceiling height into account when deciding how high to place the microphones, or is it just a matter of how high the booms will reach?
 
And why are string instruments usually recorded from up high, anyway? Seems like the best position would be down at ear level, where people are accustomed to hearing it. Of course, I've never listened to an orchestra from 10' in the air, so maybe it sounds much better up there!

 
You should spring for the box seats next time. :-)
 
The way I learned it, two reasons to mic large ensembles from above is to collect a better blend of musicians seated from front to back, and to get the mics further away from extraneous noises emanating from the audience.
 
 
best regards,
mike
 
 

 
LOL! I didn't realize what you meant by the "Coffee Cantanta".
 
Now I do. :-)
 
Everything sounds wonderful. The balance sounds lovely.
 
best regards,
mike