Metal Guitar

I am trying to get a real HEAVY guitar sound like Slipknot or Lamb of God. What kind of microphone should I use? And what kind of advice could someone offer on mic placement, amp, plug-ins to use, any information that will bring me closer to having a deadly guitar sound will be much appreciate! >:)

-H \m/

ORIGINAL: inRed

I am trying to get a real HEAVY guitar sound like Slipknot or Lamb of God. What kind of microphone should I use? And what kind of advice could someone offer on mic placement, amp, plug-ins to use, any information that will bring me closer to having a deadly guitar sound will be much appreciate! >:)

-H \m/

Computer Music magazine did a feature piece on recording metal not long ago. Check their website.

Regards, lightninrick

Early this year I bought a Digitech RP250. It's basically an amp modeler with just about every effect I can think of. It also hooks up to my laptop via USB so I can edit all of the settings in a human friendly way. Anyhow, I'm incredibly happy with the sound, and I can't say I'll ever subject myself to amp miking again (I just never could get it right). I've cycled through all of the presets and there's some pretty heavy stuff in there. My style is more country and blues, but I did some bumper music for a friend of mine and used a heavy sound. The other thing I like about it is that the sound out of the box is pretty much ready to go straight on a CD.

However, you might just try to record a clean sound into Sonar and color it with an amp modeling VST. Just a thought. Hope it helps.

I used line out on my Boss GT6 effects unit rather than micing up the cab (especially as I am unable to make massive amounts of noise when recording), you can check out the guitar sounds on the links below my signature.

If you want to mic up the amp then some SM57s would certainly do the trick and placement I have found is best a couple of feet from the speaker in a small ambient space such as a bathroom or wooden flooered room. Try different micing positions to see what suits your sound the best. If you cab has an open back you can mic one front and one back for depth of sound. There is loads of info on the net about micing up. For me my GT6 and direct in to the sound card works perfectly and records fantastically well.

You mention Lamb of God and Slipknot... what guitar are you using? 7 String?

Cheers

ORIGINAL: rsp@odyssey.net

I'm pretty sure that wall of guitar your talking about is achieved by layering multiple tracks of the same guitar parts. In other words, recording the part, then recording it again and again, not cloning. Have you tried this? This technique was very effective with groups like Def Leppard and producer Mutt Lange to achieve to massive guitar sound you speak of. After getting a set of tracks together, experimenting with panning, delay and reverb should get you close to what your looking for. Your gear looks like plenty to me to get there.

Randy

True indeed!

You can even use the same guitar part rather than re-recording, just cut and paste to a new track and delay it slightly, or change the eq, pan or effects.

Yep... The best thing to do is just go for it and experiment until you find what works for you.

Well, AFAIK neither Lamb of God nor Slipknot use 7 string guitars. I know Slipknot uses drop-B tunning but I don't know what tunning Lamb of God uses (not a fan of them). If you want big guitar sounds you'll need to record from a real amp, preferrably a cab with a head. If you can't play too loud then a combo amp will do. That and an SM-57 is all you need but you'll have to take your time with the sound and mic placement to get it perfect.

The first tip is to lower the Gain a little unless you already use a moderate gain setting (extremely rare in us metal guitarists). Start dialing the sound you want by playing a heavy riff on the guitar. Aim for a heavy but clean sound (oxymoron). I usually dial the Bass down (the Bass player will be taking care of that anyways), and bring up the Mid and Highs to taste. That should give you a crunchy sound that cuts through like a razor blade. Always listen to how you're affecting the sound going into your DAW by recording different takes. Since I don't have a separate room for an amp I use track layers and record the same riff making slight changes to compare them with the other ones. Obviously you wanna write this down before moving on so you know what changed from layer to layer. This includes mic positioning, Amp settings, guitars, and whatever you think is pertinent. You do this until you get what you want, and that's basically it. Keep in mind that with a tube amp you wanna record loud but it doesn't have to blow the house away though. Just get it to where you hear a nice sound coming out of the amp. Also, with a dynamic mic like the SM-57, you can EQ the sound using the proximity effect.

This is just a simplified version on how to record guitars but hopefully it'll get you in the right path. You just need to experiment with different settings until you hit the spot. The rest is just recording different takes for L and R channels. You can do multiple takes but I personally don't like doing this unless they're different because it starts to sound washy, specially when doing precise rhythms.

HTH

ORIGINAL: mcourter

I know, I know: try it and see.
Mark

Yeap, only you know what you want.

ORIGINAL: mcourter
shouldn't I theoretically be able to get that fat, heavy sound?

Yes, although you need a good guitar and you need to play it with the appropriate amount of aggression. You also need to learn how to adjust your TonePort to select the heavier amps, cabinets, and settings.

Shouldn't I then be able to approximately duplicate moving mic position and distance? I know, I know: try it and see.

I don't think a TonePort gives you many options regarding mic simulations or mic placements, although that may have changed. For mic placement, you need a PODxt or better. Don't let that stop you, however. I have a POD v2 (the TonePort is based on the v2, or it used to be) and you can get very heavy sounds out of it with surprisingly little effort. You need to attack the guitar correctly, or no gear will help you.

In my humble experience it's just a matter of getting the basic metal sound right, (but there any simple pedal like an MT-2 or even a Behringer Hypermetal will do to get the high-end gain), and then record it several times, like per the advice given. Basic tone can be rather 'thin', even. In the mix, I find that's only a bonus. It's the multiple tracks that give it the 'awesome' sound you expect, with the fullness like it's coming from your amp setup, more or less.

If you can tolerate swearing and a great deal of disrespect towards musicians and guitar players, click here to find the best info anywhere on the topic of recording heavy guitar:

Slipperman's guide to dirt guitar

Cheers.

ORIGINAL: Thomas Campitelli

Someone mentioned recording guitar tracks over and over. Once you have recorded two tracks, you don't need anymore, at least as far as rhythms go.

Def Leppard had a bit of a different approach on Hysteria that alludes to the recording of multiple tracks of guitar. Phil Collen was noted to have said they followed the Tom Schultz (Boston) method of recording guitar tracks. Which was to single note some of the passages to build chords. Hence the build up for multiple tracks. It requires near precision of play and can be a bit difficult to achieve clarity. But then again it took them over a year to produce that album and two different producers (they trash caned the first version of the album)

While I would agree for backing tracks that only two are needed (recorded in mono and each guitar panned in opposite stereo locations). Embellishments and enhancements out side of the solo may take up several other tracks.

So really Randy was right just in a different way. But I think it all comes down to a matter of taste.

ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK
In the current Gearbox program associated with the Toneport, you get the following dialogue for microphone choice and adjustments - not comprehensive I agree, but the different settings give you something extra to work with

Indeed, it appears Line 6 has been hard at work. I suspected as much. So I rescind what I said. Apparently the Tone Port will give you a whole lot more flexibility than my v2 POD with regard to mic placement.

Thanks, Thomas. I think my old Les Paul qualifies as a good guitar.

Among the best. I really dig Les Pauls.

Phil Collen was noted to have said they followed the Tom Schultz (Boston) method of recording guitar tracks. Which was to single note some of the passages to build chords.

You can find lots of examples where people try and cram more than two tracks of guitar in a mix. Metallica had something like 6 for most of And Justice For All. When it came time for the Black Album (arguably one of the best sounding metal recordings produced in the last 16 or so years), they went back to a stereo rhythm track for most of it. I would argue that even though many attempts have been made to record lots of rhythm guitars, it rarely sounds very good. Phase cancellation is for real. With stereo guitars, the effect is pleasing. After that, it sounds less so. The enjoyment of recording also wanes as you try to play things so tightly that 4 guitars sounds like one. As you mentioned, atmospheric parts or other embelishments and solos, etc... don't fall into the two track paradigm. However, if you are laying down heavy guitar rhythms, two should be plenty.

I use a Behringer V-Amp 2 for recording and leave my amp sitting there...lonely....since I can duplicate my amp sound through the V-Amp 2, I'm not having to deal with mic placxement or volume levels while recording. I just run into my mixer and set my recording level / make any small adjustements EQ wise to the incoming signal.

I also second (or third) dropping the gain, it takes a few to get used to the lower settings - but gives a nice clean punchy recording, and when you pan hard left and right - nice sound. I always record the part at least twice - once for hard right - once for hard left, then track a third guitar part in some other fingering or harmony to play off the two main guitars. Of course you can clone previous takes, but your studio time is SOOOO cheap ( :P )...why not lay down the actual tracks? It does make a difference IMHO.

ORIGINAL: wickerman

I use a Behringer V-Amp 2 for recording and leave my amp sitting there...lonely...

Yeah, going direct is enough in most cases. I currently have the gain and the overall volume under separate pedals. Having the gain separately is pretty important. That pedal is freely assignable anyway, but the default is now most definitely 'gain'. So that's 3 pedals to get it just right, for me. Think I'll leave it this way, BTW.

You could do that with the V-amp 2 as well I think, if you slap the FCB1010 footcontroller on it, it has 2 pedals, even. Can pick those up for a song.