Soundwise
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Metering Suite
Isn't it obvious, that Sonar needs a Metering Suite? Just like in T-Racks CS, iZotope RX, Magix Samplitude, etc.
It can be implemented as;
1) a set of Pro Channel modules;
2) a dockable Metering View with a set of metes, including Loudness Meter, Phase Meter, Correlation Meter, Vectroscope, Guitar Tuner, etc.
Please, vote!
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tlw
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/02 18:00:44
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To play devil's advocate, Voxengo SPAN is an excellent set of free metering tools that cover most (if not all) of what's needed, and there are some good free and very cheap VU meter emulators around as well.
I'm not opposed to Sonar coming with its own suite, but I could understand Cakewalk not wanting to invest much time (and therefore money) when one of the best regarded tools is already available for free. Plus if you use more than one DAW, and many people do, using the same metering tools irrespective of which DAW is in use helps with consistency.
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/03 13:59:54
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☄ Helpfulby Starise 2016/02/23 11:43:23
Well, besides Voxengo SPAN there are other software solutions for metering, as well as there are other plugins and instruments, yet Cakewalk invests in developing new plugins and VIs or integrating third party ones into Skylight interface. Finally, there are other DAWs, which doesn't mean Cakewalk should stop developing the Sonar line.
In a nutshell, adding functionality is always beneficial to software product and I don't see any reason to overlook the need for a Metering Suite integrated with Sonar.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/14 03:02:12
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TTT I happen to think you have a good feature request  SONAR needs an on-board Pro Style Metering Suite . I don't need to use 3rd party metering when I use Samplitude Pro X2 or Mixbus 3.1 Why do I have to use 3rd party for SPlat ? Kenny
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Elffin
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/14 04:34:57
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add k metering option and i'll be happy
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/14 04:35:29
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Thanks for your reply, Kenny!
Samplitude has a nice metering suite indeed. I have Sampltude Music Studio and find its metering outstanding. Pretty sure, bakers can come up with some great Metering View, hence the proposal: why don't we suggest design variants for the Cakewalk Metering Suite?
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/14 09:30:33
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☄ Helpfulby Soundwise 2016/02/15 05:33:37
Soundwise
Thanks for your reply, Kenny!
Samplitude has a nice metering suite indeed. I have Sampltude Music Studio and find its metering outstanding. Pretty sure, bakers can come up with some great Metering View, hence the proposal: why don't we suggest design variants for the Cakewalk Metering Suite?
Hi Soundwise , I had Samplitude Music Studio , I was pretty happy with it enough to upgrade to Pro X2 . OK here's a few pics ...Pro X2 and Music Studio pretty much share the same Metering . on my pic I have a K-14 bottom right , then the visualization view is showing a few additional metering tools . I know you know what all that is since you have it ....  I thought you may like to see the Mixbus 3 .1.66 metering ...the newest release . I happen to love this metering bridge in the next pic ... I have the track view open ( w only a few tracks ) and the metering bridge docked to the left ... IMHO it tells me everything I need to know when I'm editing while in the track view . Who knows , maybe Cakewalk can come up with a Light compact meter bridge " Cakewalk style " so we can edit audio while staying in track view and keep track of what is going on with all our levels during play back   In this pic I have the Mixing Console view open ...the aux buses aren't receiving anything ... Had known I would be posting screen shots I would have dug out my external HD and fired up a tune w a bunch of tracks ... for what we are talking about it , I feel it is not all that important ... I left the meter bridge in the console view to show how easy it is to see the levels fast and uncluttered while a tune is playing The Master on the far right before the monitoring section has a K -14 meter + a phase correlation meter above the K -14.... ( there is other metering that it is included , it goes into demo mode , I could unlock once I purchase ...) The monitor section to the right of the master is one of my favorite things about this program ..... I seriously considered starting a feature request here on the forum requesting a SONAR version of that I'm sure some folks here know how versatile the monitor feature is because there are a number of hard core SONAR users that also use this program . not to go too OT ....take a good look at what's in there BTW that whole monitor section has just received the ability to run plugs totally independent of the mix .. With out having them effect the mix ...As we all know that can be very useful ....  Soundwise , I have tried my best to stay on topic and not go all Rouge OT on you ....lol it has been nice talking with you . all the best , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/14 10:33:39
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/15 17:20:23
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Kenny, I agree that Samplitude's metering is outstanding.  just as IK's T-Racks. I also like iZotope's Insight layout  Flux  and this  Wish we had a dockable Metering View hosting some analyzers of this kind.
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Snehankur
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/16 01:49:02
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Confused - whom to support!!
Yes Metering will be nice at one place - undockable. But as TLW mentioned when s good one already available free then why put effort on developing. Kenny's view - why 3rd party? But for many a thing we use third party plugins/vst/vsti etc etc for all DAW not only SONAR.
But if I have understood, it would be nice to have a meter bridge LED Bar on top and Faders BELOW [not side by side] in a separate undockable window so that will be narrowest strip and large number of channels can be accommodated. Just another type of view of the Mixer view - Click, CTRL+Click, ALT+Click on the track name can be Solo, Mute etc..
In addition in the present channel strip there can be VU Meter - they will look nice and useful.
Both VU meter and LED bars to be configurable to show a particular type of data/value.
This is my personal view inspired by the last picture shared by Kenny.
Regards
Snehankur
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/16 04:20:55
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Aye Carrumba wtf ....Snehankur , now you are getting me confused  Ok , REAL FAST I'm in agreement w Soundwise that SONAR could benefit from having and on board metering suite SONAR Splat does cost over $500 dollars for a new user ... The two DAW's I mentioned do have a nice set of features when it comes to metering IHMO ... Snehankur since I don't recall ever rapping with you before , it may be totally possible that you may not be aware that when I upgraded to SPlat that I took on a personal challenge ... The short story is I wanted to get more chops using SPlat only for a time so I took my 4 other fully featured computer based DAW 's both PC and Mac and put them away so I could concentrate on only working in The Generic as installed SPlat environment w little or any 3rd party additions ... FWIW I have all the big players in both platforms including a modest amount of 3rd party additions (plugs and synths ) anyway sorry to go OT OK back to this topic ...sure we can go 3rd party for metering ..both paid and free ... IMHO it is not an elegant solution unless you ARE RUNNING SOME HIGH POWERED plugs you absolutely must have . Please allow me to take this a step further using free 3rd party metering inside SONAR SPlat To replicate what Soundwise and I have discussed (about Samp ) the first step would be "one would have to create a group of metering effects " ... I have drawn up example for our discussion ... the first steps over here were to place the metering effects on my Master Buss .. Then I created an effects device chain btw if i had spent more time I would have created a send from the master buss to another buss just for the visaul end of things color me lazy here's the pics Effects Chain Master Buss Metering ...everything is self contained  Span  Blue Cat  T Racks  MTuner  MLOUDNESSANALYZER  OK for those that feel 3rd party is the answer I have made a compromise to appease that opinion .. My Rub is this , this may be a solution and it is not an elegant solution . Why ? because in SONAR using an effects chain of ones own creation , unless I'm missing something I can only open up one effect at a time . That means my screen real estate has gotten pretty clogged up .... You Dig ? all the best , Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2016/02/16 04:39:36
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/16 04:31:00
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Soundwise
Kenny, I agree that Samplitude's metering is outstanding.
just as IK's T-Racks.
I also like iZotope's Insight layout
Flux
and this
Wish we had a dockable Metering View hosting some analyzers of this kind.
Nice looking meters Soundwise You know , if you have those plugs you can create an effects chain of any combo of those and save it to run in SONAR I still want SONAR to have what I have in some of the other previously mentioned DAW's we spoke about . have a good one , Kenny
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/16 04:39:30
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Snehankur
Confused - whom to support!!
Yes Metering will be nice at one place - undockable.
Imagine Metering View being nested in its own dock, like Browser and Inspector. You can make it floating or dock anywhere - left, right, top, bottom. Wouldn't this be convenient and useful? Thanks for your support of this feature request, your opinion matters.
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/16 04:49:03
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kennywtelejazz
Nice looking meters Soundwise
Yes, indeed. By looking at recently announced plugs like this  I'm pretty sure bakers can make some great analyzers and meters. It's not about developing something completely new and unheard of, but rather implementing existing code to make separate modules just for metering.
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Afrodrum
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 09:32:49
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+1 for dockable metering and tuner. Lack of tuner in a top DAW is rather bizarre.
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Hatstand
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 10:19:53
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Isn't there a tuner in the bundled TH2 software?
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BobF
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 10:37:24
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OK. Serious question after a brief statement.
To me all of the gazillion metering options seems strange. Thinking about all of the DAW developer time & dollars spent on Yet Another Metering Solution sounds like an inefficient use of resources to me. Who can say now that whatever solution CW comes up with will actually be preferred over the 3rd party metering tools? My guess is that there would be a huge split, with a smallish pie slice actually proclaiming The Great Cake Metering Solution to be the best ever.
Now the question. What in the world is gained (pun?) by all of these different metering approaches? The real, incremental gain ...
This whole million-meter thing seems as inefficient as the healthcare industry continuing to pump R&D dollars into new, clever ways to record a persons temp.
So seriously, how do each of these options help the music or the process? I really want to know. Especially if everything I said above is ignorant and naive.
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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pwalpwal
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 10:45:33
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Afrodrum
+1 for dockable metering and tuner. Lack of tuner in a top DAW is rather bizarre.
there used to be a cakewalk tuner plugin but it got dropped at some point, don't know why
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Hatstand
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 10:58:22
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☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/02/23 11:26:31
Bob, I guess metering is a bit of a misnomer here as the options suggested above are more about analysis than just metering. Really the only main metering that isn't available currently without third party plugs is loudness scale metering (either LUFS or K scale). Some of those 3rd party options above are free in any case. The existing metering for RMS and Peak could benefit from some visual enhancements perhaps but they do the job.
The rest of the suggestions are about other types of analysis either currently not available out of the box or in need of some improvement.
These cover spectrum analysis, phase analysis, spatial analysis, multiband compression (with visuals), Left/Right + Mid/Side analysis This is one of the reasons why people use plugs like SPAN, Ozone, TRacks etc.
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 11:55:21
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Hatstand
Isn't there a tuner in the bundled TH2 software?
Would you use it to tune a saxophone or a mandolin? You probably would. )) But I doubt that users who are not into amp-sims as much as guitar players will even think of TH2 as a tuner stand-in. BobF
So seriously, how do each of these options help the music or the process?
I've seen quite a few blind musicians, some of them are great, awesome performers. But when they try to learn basics of computer based DAWs, they fail to succeed. The point is - visual analysis of the audio data is just as important as using your ears.
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brconflict
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 12:19:16
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Metering is certainly one thing to have for Mastering here, but workflow is even more important, IMO. Personally, I'd like to see a Screenset dedicated to [M] for Mastering, and the 'console' workflow could be set up just like a real mastering desk. If it were, say, one large stereo channel with an input, output, and all the plug-in slots in between (where you can see all the plugins at once (scrollable view), the workflow would be worth good use. Wavelab has an excellent workflow, where you see your stereo track, and one plug-in chain. On top, you can choose metering options. But the first and foremost need, IMO is workflow. Metering is part of it, but cumbersome if the GUI isn't made to allow metering to be present at all times.
Yes, there are Mastering templates, and yes, you can Master in Sonar as-is, but it's the last place (currently) that I would choose because it doesn't have a Mastering workflow. But yes, metering included would be divine. :)
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Soundwise
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/23 12:22:22
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brconflict
yes, metering included would be divine. :)
I agree!
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BASSJOKER
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/02/26 07:39:25
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Got my vote on this one....very good points by all. I just began getting into the realm of 3rd party use....and am only using MC7 at this stage....but I follow suit of what you all are dealing with as for the workflow thing....and yeah...having to open (if I even use it in said project) the TH2 up every instance to tune a guitar gets silly. I just use my phone mostly anyhow...lol. That said ...overall I am very happy so far with the results im getting with MC7 ..but I suspect more of the quirks you all deal with on higher levels of mastering are coming my way. Thankful for the forum to continue soaking and learning from your experiences.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/03/08 03:07:14
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SONAR is a Great DAW , Samplitude has much better metering  There I said it . Do I need to go into details ? Kenny
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John
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/03/09 12:04:56
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I would be for this idea if CW makes the various displays good looking and useful. Customizable too. The model they might want to use is the Flux meters and displays. As a second model Izotope's Insight would be nice. I would not care for an after thought type approach. Throw something together and call it a day.
Studio one has a good approach in this regard. I leave up to them to be creative in how they look and what they do. Above all else they must be accurate.
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Paul P
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/03/09 17:09:03
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I've said it before. Cakewalk could really distinguish itself, and attract countless new customers, if it offered a comprehensive framework for mastering songs/audio to ITU BS.1770-3 (EBU R 128 in Europe, ATSC A/85 in America, etc.). Great metering and whatever is needed for easy loudness normalization. Dare to be at the forefront.
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streckfus
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/03/10 09:53:22
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I use a combination of Voxengo SPAN/AnSpec and T-Racks Metering, and while it works just fine, it would be nice if SONAR has its own dockable metering suite as has been suggested. More streamlined than having a handful of plugin windows open.
As Soundwise has already brought up, SONAR already has spectrum analyzer functionality (Quad-Curve EQ), standard track meters, etc. so I wouldn't think it would be a major undertaking to create a suite like this. Then again, I've developed software as often as I've walked on the moon, so what do I know!
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Metering Suite
2016/03/16 03:39:38
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I sure like this metering . The screen shot is off one of my computers .  Kenny
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