Metronome speed

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Zurf
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2010/07/23 10:01:40 (permalink)

Metronome speed

So how do I set the speed of the metronome in beats per minute in Sonar LE?  The metronome is playing just fine.  At some point I'm going to need to figure out how to make it NOT play, but for now I want to test it.  But it's going, there's no settings I can find anywhere near it.  The only metronome setting instructions I could find in the forums takes me into something that adjusts clicks per quarter note or some such, which I have no idea what it means or how it works.  Any metronome I've ever used has always operated on a BPM setting, and I can't find ANYTHING that relates to BPM anywhere in the Sonar LE myriad of buttons.  

You'd think a double click or a right click on the metronome icon in the channel would do it, but no.  There's a tempo view, but it brings up a chart of what's recorded (which isn't anything  before setting the metronome), so it's of no use.  

This is the most strangely interfacing software I've ever tried to use, and the instructions for a beginner software such as LE seem to me to be mostly jargon understandable only to someone who already knows a lot about recording software.  For someone who is trying to learn, very, very hard and steep learning curve.  

Thanks for any help and sorry for my rant.  I hope I can get this to work after the effort of getting it loaded and paying for it.  If not, it'll be back to free WavePro.  It's not as robust, but at least I can record without spending hours diddling and trying to find settings.  

- Zurf
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    EtherealEntity
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/07/23 13:00:46 (permalink)
    You want to change your project tempo - just type the new number in the tempo toolbar.
    You already mentioned the tempo view - you can do it here too. Draw a straight line on the line graph and that's your project tempo. You can change the tempo at any bar with this graph or make gradual changes. Also Insert>Tempo is a way to do it.

    To turn the metronome off..I can't remember where it is right now but I think it's near the play button on the transport toolbar. That's definately the case if you have the Large transport toolbar enabled (atleast in Producer edition - I don't remember if LE had that feature)
    You will find buttons to turn on/off metronome during playback and record (seperately).


    Edit: I understand your rant - it can be annoying when you can't find exactly what you need. However - (please don't take this as an attack, it is not meant as one in the slightest) you seem to be blaming Sonar here but it is really not hard to find. You know you want to change the tempo of your project so I would have thought you would look for a tempo toolbar of some sort. A nice way I found, to learn what all the buttons did, is to turn off all the toolbars. Then turn them on one by one fully understanding what they do one at a time and arranging them on your screen exactly as you wish :)
    post edited by EtherealEntity - 2010/07/23 13:04:07
    #2
    Zurf
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/07/23 14:04:12 (permalink)
    Thanks EtherealEntity.  As I said, I did find the tempo setting, but it's just a grid.  There's no way to know that one's supposed to draw a line on the grid to set tempo.   Even from your instruction, what kind of line do I draw?  Horizontal?  Vertical?  Perhaps on a 45 degree slant to show a constant progression?  I have no idea.  And saying to enter a number in the tempo toolbar is nice, but I didn't find a tempo toolbar yet.  I found an icon I could click to bring up a page that has a grid on it.  That is not a toolbar by any definition I understand, but perhaps that is what is meant.  I just don't know.  It's unclear.  So, I remain at a loss as to where and how to enter a BPM number.  

    So, now that I know to go to the tempo setting that is nowhere near the metronome icon, I may now have a hint as to things to try to attempt changing the tempo, but I am still at a loss as to how to get the particular tempo I want.  I am still feeling justified in my rant and resent a bit the implication that I ought to know how to use a tool intuitively without guidance or a manual of any sort.  Why?  Bearing all the above in mind, and knowing that it is Cakewalk who has decided to produce and distribute an entry-level program like Sonar LE, the expectation that consumers of the entry level program will have expert knowledge of Cakewalk's more advanced software and their approach to terminology and interface is not a reasonable expectation.  That is clearly something for which I blame Sonar and Cakewalk, and I think reasonably so.   
    - Zurf

    #3
    EtherealEntity
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/07/24 07:49:25 (permalink)
    EDIT: I somehow screwed up the format of this post and put the whole thing in a quote which I can't get rid of...I hope it's readable!

    Thanks EtherealEntity.  As I said, I did find the tempo setting, but it's just a grid.  There's no way to know that one's supposed to draw a line on the grid to set tempo.   Even from your instruction, what kind of line do I draw?  Horizontal?  Vertical?  Perhaps on a 45 degree slant to show a constant progression?  I have no idea.
     

    Sure there's a way to know. It seems pretty obvious to me that the tempo view is a line graph with your bar/time in the song across the top and tempo down the side. Sure some people pay not realise this, but this is definately no fault of Sonar. It could not really be more obvious. There's even already the horizontal blue line at the default project tempo going across the bottom there.

    And saying to enter a number in the tempo toolbar is nice, but I didn't find a tempo toolbar yet.  I found an icon I could click to bring up a page that has a grid on it.  That is not a toolbar by any definition I understand, but perhaps that is what is meant.  I just don't know.  It's unclear.  So, I remain at a loss as to where and how to enter a BPM number.  

    You will want to go to View>Toolbars where you will find a list of toolbars to turn on and off, tempo being one of them. You either have it disabled or simply did not see it yet. I will attatch a screenshot later in my post.

    So, now that I know to go to the tempo setting that is nowhere near the metronome icon, I may now have a hint as to things to try to attempt changing the tempo, but I am still at a loss as to how to get the particular tempo I want.  I am still feeling justified in my rant and resent a bit the implication that I ought to know how to use a tool intuitively without guidance or a manual of any sort.  Why?  Bearing all the above in mind, and knowing that it is Cakewalk who has decided to produce and distribute an entry-level program like Sonar LE, the expectation that consumers of the entry level program will have expert knowledge of Cakewalk's more advanced software and their approach to terminology and interface is not a reasonable expectation.  That is clearly something for which I blame Sonar and Cakewalk, and I think reasonably so.   

    Here's a screenshot taken from my Sonar 8.5 Producer.


    Highlighted in red is the tempo toolbar. Highlighted in green is the metronome toolbar. The fact that you can enable, disable, customize and reposition toolbars exactly as you please pretty much voids your statement that the metronome and tempo icons are not near each other. One could argue that the two things should be put together - which is fair enough. But in my opinion the amount of buttons on each toolbar justifies them being apart from eachother. There are a whole set of options for the metronome there, and quite a few for the tempo. In my opinion they are fairly seperate things. Of course the metronome relies on the tempo - but pretty much every setting in Sonar is going to rely on a ton of other things. This does not mean they should all be placed together.

    Note: The toolbars in my screenshot may differ slightly from your LE version, but I remember that these programs were much the same.

    I do feel the need to reinforce that I hope I am not coming across as rude. I am just being honest here and trying to help. In my opinion everything mentioned here is set out and designed very simply and incredibly easy to pick up on. When you mentioned the manual - I am not implying that you should know how to do any of this without a manual. I feel that Sonars interface design is wonderful, and personally have not needed a manual for many simple functions. However, that is not to say that other people don't. The manual is available for you to use if you should need it, and has plenty of thorough instructions. A simple search for metronome or tempo would have probably given you exactly what you needed (reference to the tempo toolbar).

    Quote from my Sonar manual;

    Search - Tempo
    Result - Changing Tempos

    You can add
    tempo changes to your project in the following ways:

    Using the Tempo toolbar.


    Using the Insert > Tempo Change and Insert > Series of Tempos commands.


    By drawing tempo changes graphically in the Tempo view.


    Inserting tempo changes in the Tempo view’s Tempo List pane.


    And at the bottom of that page are links to detailed pages on the above bullet points.

    Once again, I am trying not to be rude here but I really do not think it could have been designed any easier. I hope that you understand the feature now and will continue to learn Sonar, as it is a wonderful program.
    post edited by EtherealEntity - 2010/07/24 07:56:42
    #4
    Zurf
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/07/26 09:53:35 (permalink)
    Thank you very much for your time to pull this together.  

    Sure it could be designed easier.  Allow a right click on the metronome icon in the summary screen and bring up a menu for frequently used adjustments, like turning the metronome on or off and adjusting the speed by entering a BPM number, or perhaps mimic a physical metronome with a dial image that gives an audible signal during adjustment so the user can "feel" whether the speed is correct, or perhaps test the speed without having to go back and forth several screens to do so.  This would be at once much easier than having to go through several screens away from the base project to adjust the metronome speed and be more consistent with GUI based applications. 

    What is obvious to someone who has been using this software for some while is not so obvious to new users, and perhaps the expectations of ease of use goes the other way.  To those who are new to the software, it may be easier for us to observe methods to make it easier to use than those who are already deeply immersed in the interfaces and quirks of the software as designed and updated over the years.  
     
    Once again, I thank you for your time and effort in explaining it to me.  However, I believe we shall have to agree to disagree on what is obvious and what is not. 

    Best regards,
    Zurf
    #5
    RobertB
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/07/26 19:57:40 (permalink)
    Welcome to the world of DAW's, Zurf.
    Kind of feels like you jumped into the deep end of the pool with bricks strapped to your ankles, doesn't it?
    Don't worry, it gets easier. And, yes, obvious is relative.
    SonarLE doesn't come with a manual, but spend some time browsing the help files.
    Much of it may seem foreign now, but as questions arise, you may remember seeing answers in the help files.
    SonarLE is not really a beginner program. It is a stripped down version of Sonar, minus plug-ins and some functionality, but it is still very complex and powerful.
    Cakewalk does have a beginner program, Music Creator, which is available as a download or in a boxed version.
    It is modestly priced at under $40(US). It also comes with the MC forum, where we answer many basic questions to help you get up and running.
    As for getting the metronome and BPM onscreen, try this. It should work the same in all sonar versions.
    Right click in the icon area.
    Select Transport(Large). Among other things, this should give you buttons for metronome during record/playback, and a BPM indicator.
    You can change the BPM, and the metronome will follow that setting.
    If you want to tap in a tempo you can do that, too.
    In the toolbar, click Views>Tempo to get the grid you have seen.
    Hit "T" on your keyboard.
    Click on the Insert Tempo icon (hover your cursor over the icons to find it if needed).
    Place your cursor over the "Click here to tap tempo" button.
    Tap for about 30 seconds to get a good average.
    When you hit OK, the tempo is applied to the project.
    You will see that in the transport.
    Hopefully that answers some of your questions.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #6
    KaPo Entertainment
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/08/21 06:25:01 (permalink)
    hi Zurf! i hve just downloaded the SOnar 8.5 LE and i m having problems with the playback. each time i recoed something and play back on loop mode the rewired beat and the recorded audio are unsincing. even when i punch in record at any chosen point of a project. please help.oh and one more thing can i upgrade from sonsr 8.5LE TO sONAR 8.5 Producer?  how do i post my own help seek , coz as you can see i m asking you whilst on someone else`s message to you.
    #7
    KaPo Entertainment
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    Re:Metronome speed 2010/08/21 06:28:27 (permalink)
    orry that whole series of questions where for Robert B
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