bitSync
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Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
I'd like to halt or mute the metronome during a portion of a musical piece that departs from a regular, periodic tempo for a moment, allowing for some tempo-less musical meandering, and subsequently restart the metronome on the down beat of my choice. The closest thing I can think of as an example is Little Feat's Willin', where the chorus is followed by "And if you give me...", which although bears its own sort of timing linking the vocal harmonies, is flexible enough tempo-wise to go almost anywhere until the down beat on "wine", at which time the tempo is back in its pre-meandering grove. I can automate a mute on the metronome bus for the first such occasion in a song, but after that I can't think of a good solution. I've been unable to find a way to just suspend the metronone until the downbeat on my say so, maybe with a footswitch to restart/unmute it. I wouldn't care if Sonar wanted to keep counting steady measures quietly to itself and to just truncate the duration of that last measure before my downbeat, at which time the previous tempo would resume. Any suggestions for how to do this? Thanks!
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swamptooth
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 11:11:31
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right-click the mute button on the metronome bus and select "remote control". move your footpedal and click the learn button. it won't start on the downbeat, but where you turn it on. might help.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 11:29:46
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Another solution would be to not use the metronome - use a hi hat in Session Drummer - you can place the hits wherever you want
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Cactus Music
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 11:30:53
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I just stumbled through a similar situation with an old Marshal Tucker song "Desert Sky" where at the end there is all this slowed down part , then a pause as they go " I like to watch the moon a --hiding". and those words are in a triplet time. But it was the same thing your talking about as the metronome was off to the "feel" of this one part of the song. I had to do two things . Draw a tempo map to slow it down through this part. And I made my own metronome track playing along using the rim shot and had only downbeats per measure through the transition. You could do the same thing. Make a midi click track and kill it in that part. Edit- I see Jonesey posted while I was typing the same idea, so it must be the best way for sure... :>
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bitSync
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 13:19:19
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Thanks all. You've given me some good ideas to try. I could just go completely metronomeless and do a tempo map after recording a guide performance, but I like to have the intended beat occasionally rein me in to something steady-ish.
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dantarbill
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 16:29:39
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bitSync Thanks all. You've given me some good ideas to try. I could just go completely metronomeless and do a tempo map after recording a guide performance, but I like to have the intended beat occasionally rein me in to something steady-ish. Another thing you could do, is use a metronome bus (as provided on the most recent track templates) and then do a mute or gain automation on the bus where needed.
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BretB
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 18:05:58
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What if you: play to a given measure lets say 100 at 4/4 and 140 BPM. Mute the metronome buss. From measure 100 you ramble or stop. At the point you start to play again, calculate the time and set some random tempo, (in the background and muted), that will result in having that point be measure 101. At measure 101, you can have it set back the tempo you need. "It works on paper"
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sharke
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 20:01:39
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+1 for volume automation in the metronome bus. Simples.
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swamptooth
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 23:06:22
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but volume automation doesn't take into account that the non-linear, tempo-less groove can be of any length of time. you can automate volume, but you have to know exactly how long the improvisation is going to be, which is in most circumstances, unpredictable.
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dantarbill
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/08 23:22:00
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bitSync I'd like to halt or mute the metronome during a portion of a musical piece that departs from a regular, periodic tempo for a moment, allowing for some tempo-less musical meandering, and subsequently restart the metronome on the down beat of my choice. ... I've been unable to find a way to just suspend the metronone until the downbeat on my say so, maybe with a footswitch to restart/unmute it. I missed the reference to the footswitch that implies you want to do this in live performance. That is to say...you intend to do your "meandering" live, and then pick up the sequence with some sort of performance gesture. You might want to break the song into two different projects, and then play them back to back(ish) via a playlist. The first project comes up to the "meander" part and ends. (Insert you personal live meandering here.) Then the next half of the song is queued up in the playlist to be started when you hit the spacebar or whatever. Does that sound more like what you're looking for?
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bitSync
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 12:47:36
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Well, everybody gets extra points for creative thinking here, but I believe that what I want to do is not technically possible with Sonar X2a, or possibly any other DAW, for that matter. The problem with muting or automating volume on the metronome track as an only solution is that it will be the DAW defining where the downbeat is on the resumption of steady tempo, not me. I may be able to work with that by getting the metronome volume sufficiently attenuated in the meandering bit but not so much I can't hear it, and then "working with" Sonar's click to restart on a mutually agreeable moment. Still not ideal but it may work. The problem with doing things in two separate takes is that it's doing it in two separate takes. The feel of the musical meandering naturally resolving back into a steady tempo may be very difficult. I'm not going to dismiss the idea of a cut and paste solution just yet though. Thanks for all the suggestions everybody!
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dantarbill
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 16:35:29
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...or perhaps what you really need to do, is go (almost) completely old school. Turn off the SONAR metronome. Set your project tempo to match the tempo of an actual hardware metronome. Record your "bed" with the real metronome in your headphones and stop it for the meandering part...then restart the metronome when you go atempo. Then...if you need the project to match up with barlines for MIDI stuff or subsequent takes...do the (somewhat painful) tempo remapping procedure to match the project tempo with your actual performance.
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wizard71
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 17:20:07
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Record separately / cut and paste makes it easy. I don't see an issue with the feel if you do it that way. If anything, that would work better as you wouldn't be trying to squeeze your meandering into a set period of time. Your downbeat back into tempo would happen wherever you wanted it to. Either that or set a guide as stated then overdub until its right. Most of the time people meander pretty much at the same speed every time when overdubbing.... It kind of gets its own tempo/feel without the mathematics.Wouldn't take much to get it right, in which case the high hat suggestion by Bristol J would work just as it did for the Beatles in day in the life for instance. Sorry..... I'm meandering ;-) Good luck Bibs
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bitSync
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 20:38:53
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@Dan and Bibs, OK, now I'm just plain impressed. An old school hardware metronome - brilliant. Never occured to me. And an iteratively tunable cut and paste for a guide track. I'm gonna try to integrate these two ideas and hopefully I won't confuse or injure myself in the process. Thank you again.
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Cactus Music
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 21:35:40
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The problem with not using Sonars clock is you won't be able to do any MIDI editing with quantizing.
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bitSync
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 22:46:18
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Cactus Music The problem with not using Sonars clock is you won't be able to do any MIDI editing with quantizing. I should be able to if I go back and build a tempo map to my guide tracks, right?
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bitSync
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/09 22:48:46
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Bristol_Jonesey Another solution would be to not use the metronome - use a hi hat in Session Drummer - you can place the hits wherever you want Maybe use a footswitch to actuate the hi hat? Is that the idea, Jonesey? Then go back later and tempo map that hi hat?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/10 03:48:18
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No, I was suggesting you go into the prv and manually add a hit wherever you want the 'metronome' to sound, up to the point where your "tempo-less musical meandering" section starts. Then you can do your meandering, for however many bars that might be. Then when the tempo picks up to a regular beat again you can insert more Hi-Hat hits to sync into.
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speedtom
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Re:Metronome suspend/resume - Is this possible?
2013/04/14 14:56:14
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dear wizard, sorry for off-topic, but i checked out your video "yeah it's good", and it is indeed really really good. totally liked the effects. could you let me know the software you used for the video? i create my videos with the windows move maker, but these effects are not included here... thanks - tom
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