Mic Phasing

I believe i might have some phasing issues with my setup.
 
I'm running 12 mic's...
Is there a plugin that will analyze my channels to see if it is time based( which to some degree I'm sure it is) or signal based?
 
Thanks!!

I use Melda productions Mauto align plugin. My most used plugin.

If you were only interested in aligning two tracks, manual waveform analysis might be sufficient. It isn't when trying six varied alignments of twelve Mics.

MAutoAlign does this.

https://www.meldaproduction.com/MAutoAlign

I have never used another plugin that does the same, so I can't help you comparison shop.

I can tell you that the Melda millisecond offsets for the Mics often accurately reflects the distance between the Mics in feet.

GHOSTNOTES
 
One mistake i did was to record all the drum tracks in stereo, going to try mono and see how that goes.
 

This is the root of your issues.

I routinely align my drum tracks manually. The plug ins suggested here look good, and I'm going to investigate them, but it's really not hard to manually align things in time in Sonar.
 
First, do the alignment before you do any other editing on the drums. Things can get weird very fast if you've split the tracks (for example) before you try to align them.
 
I always check to make sure the overheads are timed with each other first. They always are for me, because I use a crossed pair setup for OH. Just look at a clear hit on the OH tracks, zoom way,way in, and make sure that the hit starts at the same time for both OH tracks. If not, drag one of the clips until the start time is the same.
 
After that, use one of the OH tracks as a guide to line up each of the other tracks, one at a time. E.g. find a snare hit that stands out in the OH track as well as the snare track. Zoom in on the snare tracks along with one of the OH tracks. The wave on the snare track will start earlier than the OH. Just slide the snare track until the two align. Repeat for every track except the room mics.
 
Sometimes you will see that a waveform will start by going up on the OH track, but start by going down on the individual track. This indicates that the signals are 90° out of phase, or "reversed polarity". Try reversing the polarity on the console strip of the non-OH track. If the two tracks played back together sound more solid, punchier, or thicker with the polarity reversed, leave it reversed. But ultimately, use your ears; reversing the polarity on a track that looks 90° out of phase usually sounds better, but sometimes doesn't make a difference and sometimes sounds worse.
 
It sounds like a lot of work, but I can do a twelve track drum part in about half an hour. It really sounds better afterward.
 
If you are actually recording everything in stereo, I would strongly advise switching to mono for everything but the overheads and (maybe) the room mics.

Thanks again everyone. Im sure this will help tremendously.

As it's been said over and over again...i learn something new every day.
This will probably change things in a big way. My biggest problem has always been that most times no matter how hot the signal is or what i do, it seems like my mics always sound too far away, almost like a bunch of room mics instead of close mics.

vanceen nailed it. It's not as difficult as it sounds, because you only have to do it once. In case you have to routinely tear down your kit for gigs, take physical measurements and write them down to save time for the next setup.
 
And don't forget to invert the polarity on your bottom snare mic.
 
 
 
 

And lets not forget the 3:1 rule and how it play's into this. 
 
from a Sweetwater document:
 
When using two microphones to record a source, normally you will get the best results by placing the second mic three times the distance from the first mic that the first mic is from the source. This is known as the “3:1 Rule of Microphone Placement.”
An example: If the first mic is 1 foot from a source, the second mic should be placed 3 feet from the first mic.
While many engineers believe that adhering to the 3:1 Rule will minimize phase cancellation, technically this is not true. The 3:1 Rule works because the level of the signal entering the second mic (the one farther away) is reduced in level compared to the signal entering the first mic; tripling the distance substantially reduces the relative level of the signal in the two mics. This reduces the effects of phase cancellation, since the most cancellation will occur when the two mic signal levels are equal. In fact, if you crank up the gain on the second, more distant mic, you will still hear phase cancellation when it is added to the first mic.
Keep in mind that rules are meant to be broken; you may prefer the sound created by ignoring the 3:1 Rule — experiment and let your ears be your guide!

Jeff, you correctly point out my error in the phase angle.
 
Actually, to my understanding, what I described isn't a 90° nor a 180° phase shift in time. It's an inversion in the polarity of the signal with or without a time shift, which is really another thing. Sorry for the loose terminology.
 
I haven't done the test you describe, but I have made recordings where I knew very well that the polarity should be reversed, but the waveform didn't show it, and reversing the polarity made things worse (e.g. top and bottom snare mics). So I think you are right, it's not uncommon for things to be wired backward. 
 

Having a mixer flip the output polarity is not a big deal and you certainly won’t hear it unless there is more than one mixer in your setup and you happen to have say a stereo signal split over the two mixers which I guess we would not do anyway.
 
At one stage I had 3 sound cards in my computer and one of them flipped the polarity.  On the actual software even non symmetrical waveforms were in phase eg on the arrange window but not in their outputs.
 
The non symmetrical waveform test is very interesting and revealing.  Lots of things showed up as polarity flipped.  A standard sinewave is no good because it will look the same everywhere.
 
The biggest thing I got was when I tested ALL of my microphones and found that about 3 or 4 of them were polarity flipped. Had to rewire the XLR connector to put them back the same way as the others.  Not sure what was going on there but one would assume there is a standard.  May have been a wiring error or some just not caring.  Some external hardware will flip the polarity around too.

Wow just realized I've been on this board almost 12 years. Just goes to show how little of sonar i actually use. Just regular analog inputs, a few plugind and triggers from my e-kit into battery..
 

Thanks for the video.........this i can do.

I do have 2 interfaces and looking back a couple of posts about polarity between the two can be proven this way.

https://youtu.be/2GMfM0hByWw
 
I made another video where I compare to asymmetrical wave forms with polarity flipped.
 
I didn't expect to be able to hear the difference, but I could.