Midi Cover Songs and Issues

1) Am I ethically/legally, OK to exploit a 'free pop-MIDI'?

only if it's a Public Domain song, otherwise you still have to pay for a mechanical license.

2) Does it suddenly become a royalty issue for a 3rd generation copier (me) only ... after I add my vocs to it?

it doesn't matter what you do to it, if it's a copyrighted song then you have to pay for the license.

3) Should the 10 thousands of free-pop MIDIs be incriminated for all their MIDI covers?

yes, sometimes they are, but there are so many of them they're difficult to do anything about.  there are at least 2 members of this forum that have explicity said that they were told to remove MIDIs from their respective websites or they would be taken to court for royalties.  these were just MIDIs which were downloaded from the internet sites just like you're talking about.

Well then!  Its perfectly clear.  Thanks Beagle and GuitarHacker!  Despite abounding hypocrisies (on both sides of the issue)

Hence, I will not post my 'personal learning' experience on SC ... based on your sober input. 

Likewise, I will try not to crit other pop-covers that appear on Songs Forum (including yours and prominent others), for the same reason!  That also includes Yoyo copying Julibee as an excellent tribute. 

Btw, you are all free to copy anything of mine (I have a day job).  The only reason I copyright my stuff is to prevent others from sueing me over 'my stuff'.

Guitarhacker, I studied past discussions.  Each has had different flavors, IMHO.  Consider, ethics, politics, morality, and/or legality ... none of these always seem black and white.

You and I (and everyone) are guilty of *selecting/stealing* phrases from our genres and/or significant others.  "There's nothing new under the sun".  All have sinned in this area. 

Seriously, has any of us brought anything into the world that is yours mine or ours?   Hah!  Yet the publisher is granted 75ish years of exclusivity for a 'song'!
 
TBH IIRC, I could find no one condemning the MIDI abuse that I've 'discovered' the last 10 years.  So, I hope I've not simply beaten a dead horse.

Busting the rules and being 'wrong' ... well then.  I hate hypocrisy (in myself foremost):

Let some CCM hypocrite copyright a song and tell God that his publisher sued someone over the free gospel that originated from God.

Since all 'good' music is from 'God' anyway, who are you or I to say its wrong to steal from 'God'?  The publisher?  The Chinese? The Saduccee or Pharisee?

Personally, I'd exclaim, I'll sing whatever I feel ... if I only I can!

+1  to herb

phillip - I have no idea what you mean by "song hypocracy that (you're) detecting."

1) if a song is copyrighted and you want to record and distribute (including soundclick, myspace, etc) then you must pay a mechanical license.  for the covers that I have done, I've done that through the Harry Fox Agency or other appropriate licensing agent (there are Christian licensing agents available for Christian covers such as Share Song).

2) if a song is copyrighted and you're performing it at a church or bar, then the establishment must pay the appropriate performing arts establishment i.e. CCLI for church (there are others) or ASCAP or BMI (there are others) for bars.
the owner or manager is responsible for paying for the songs you perform at the venue.  (note:  CCLI is a "monthly license or yearly license but song lists still have to be submitted).

Ethical fairness of covers (MIDI, Kareoke, too) is not really established, IIRC in SC, churches, etc.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "ethical fairness of covers."  performing covers in karaoke bars and churches IS covered by ASCAP or CCLI or some performing rights establishment which is paid by the venue (see #2 above).

Well, I don't understand your negative copyright elaborations (at all):

humming publicly vs. performance 

... but a Tennessee judge might ... depending on the lawyer and degree of corruption (of both lawyer and judge).  Perhaps you'd discern me as willfully ignorant of the 'fair law'. 

and I really have no clue what you're talking about here.  "negative copyright elaborations?"  what does that refer to?

humming in public (or even just singing out loud on a public bus) is not considered a "performance" by law.  but if you'd prefer to try to interpret the copyright law for yourself or get an entertainment lawyer to interpret it for you, you can find the copyright laws at http://www.copyright.gov/

Thanks MattPlaysGuitar,
I'd hope to avoid any court case as I know what will happen!  I will lose and the plaintiff will win (even if I'm fair and right).

Thanks Beagle: Please, I'm Philip (only one 'l') sir.  Song copying Ethics has really been the heart of my post.  I detect you're troubled a bit like me.  Legalities are the "negatives".  Legalism oft assumes you admit another is worthy of punishment via man's traditions and/or even 10-commandment laws.  Negative laws are distinct from 'other' laws (laws of love, faith, singing, etc.).

Everyone: Positive responses might perhaps be:

1) "Sing and boldly call it a tribute to a genre ... instead of a cover."
2) "Change enough phrases where no one would really go crazy"
3) "Write the publisher ... you may get blessed and not have to pay too much"
4) "Use just short riffs of the copyrighted piece"
5) "Use a website other than SC"
6) "Keep the song, play it discreetly as tiny part of an album on CD Baby"
7) "Wait till you actually get warned ... if you're ever caught ... well, you're not necessarily gonna burn another 1000 years in hades."
8) "Use only the chord progressions and change the words"
9) "Just don't make money at all while calling it a tribute"
10) "Counter Sue quickly but give your gains to charity.
11) "If the song you ripped off was a weird screamo jazz band with only fans in Germany, and yours happened to use the exact same lyrics and melodys but in a pop song from America, you might be able to argue that particular argument alright." (per MattPlaysGuitar)
12) Squeeze those ripped MIDI phrases into yet a bigger song.
13) Be like the sampler artists who seem to never get sued while using every artist under the sun ... (I won't mention names)
14) Don't put much money in the banks.  Lawyer's search there 1st.  If you don't show the green all is good.
15) Never never never call your song a cover and
16) Use Beatscape as your drum-machine, which sounds soo much better than all the pop heroes anyway.
17) Sing your ripped-off MIDI's with the mexican name "Jesus" in the lyrics.  The plaintiff-victim may 'mysteriously' end up more shamed by his 4th wife or concubine ... and swiftly 'back away'.
18) Recall another song or 10 in public domain that sounds close to your song ... state that you are only emulating that public song and not the pop song by 'Greedy Records'!   Politely stick to your story-fib!  But identify (in advance of course) the phrases you're legally exploiting from the public domain.
19) Never idolize that idol you're ripping off ... that idol (a puny fellow) is probably dead by now.  Only his beast-company remains to $ucker you.
OK: I'm sure many of you currently have much better positive tricks, pearls, techniques, etc. ... on how to 'get bolder with the sweetest songs which are freely given to us from pixy land and/or above. 

(Note: I kept this out of the CH forum for obvious reasons (to not violate the cw TOS there ... and to invoke one another to dare to sing much better than the those who sell their souls to publisher-beasts))
 
... and fight for your right to sing as you wish.

You can hum or sing a song in public walking down the street without any problems.....you might be arrested for disturbing the peace but not a copyright violation.

As a performer, you can do a live performance of lots of songs. You are not responsible to pay the performance royalties, the owner of the venue or the promoter of the event is the responsible party.

I played in a band in many clubs and events.... the clubs had a contracted agreement with the PRO's to pay for the tunes on the jukebox and the tunes the band played.

The list is based on GuitarHacker's Signature:

"When there is no way out - Find a way further in."

The ideas are in no way factual, just hypothetical brainstorming ideas to perhaps help keep us creative and productive when our 'shared' songs are need a vent. 

You know the music biz is just a 3 ring circus; the legalities are evil ... not good.  God did not approve of this ... else he would not have sung hymns publicly with his apostles (which He did in the upper room).

This whole thread is meant to find an ethical (not legal) way to make bad music good.

Like being 'wiser than a serpent but harmless as doves'.

I'm not trying to encourage a strawman rant of violating copyrights. 

... Just using right words can and must get around this sensitive issue.  Surely, we all have sinned in this area to various extents on both sides of the issue.  

Again, Christ sang public and private performances without copyrights.  He never checked in with Ceasar or Babylon about it either!

IOWs, song-copyrights are apparently quite evil according to the bible ... man's invention and hypocrisy.  Songs are meant to be shared and played with others ... freely.

You and I are oft wrong to hinder others from venting new song-versions.  Please help me find positive work-arounds.

You and I are oft wrong to hinder others from venting new song-versions.  Please help me find positive work-arounds.

start a foundation.  collect money to pay royalties to the copyright owners and have bands register with your foundation to be allowed to perform or record songs with your foundation's backing.  they don't pay anything, the foundation pays the copyrights.

another thing you can do is make YOUR songs available for anyone to perform or record for free.  make the license free for all to use and encourage others to do the same.

Again, Christ sang public and private performances without copyrights.  He never checked in with Ceasar or Babylon about it either!

a lot of hymns are public domain (today).  certainly the songs that Jesus sang in public 2000 years ago would fall under the public domain now.  that's way more than 75 years after the death of the author! 

james (skullsession) - sorry it's confusing.  I have been getting confused at some of the things said as well.

Just write your own song.

Thou shalt not steal.... one of the 10 commandments.

and since the USA, recognizes intellectual property rights and grants ownership of said property, to take or otherwise record it without the owner's permission is considered stealing. Since Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's......"  that means obey the laws...... if you want to argue that....take it up with God.... his son said it...not me. Let your conscience be your guide.

Happy birthday, Philip!

bottom line about soundclick and covers:  their rules are that you don't post covers unless you have a mechanical license to do so.

Philip


Yeah, rather, I'd prefer ... +10,000 to God!  -1 to you and I.  And I served my time fighting for my friends and their laws as ordained (mostly) under God. 

(But, I keep my money out of the banks now in case I'm sued.)

GuitarHacker and Beagle, I realize you've wrestled with this ethically and politically and have endeavored to clear the clouds on this murky issue ... many times.  The wrestling may never end for any of us!  I thank you for chiming!

Being defamed, defrauded, etc., in this short life, isn't so bad, IIRC.  Songs are a blessing you and I venerate.  But, if I start humming your sweet hook publicly I'm instantly guilty via copyright laws and/or copyright ethics.  I manifested 'your' music!  Ouch!

Hypocrisy remains oft a thin line; should I $teal glory for god's/man's songs?  This is why I don't want to make money singing and despise the Baptists that do! 

The marks of political beasts should not be stamped on anyone ... to prevent us from singing from our hearts and consciences.  Obeying my Baptist-captitalistic and/or socialistic antiChrist Chinese-ish rulers (who don't allow much singing) ... well, I'm afraid I've gleefully broken Babylon's rules. 

Hopefully, my death by organized religion will be more swift than my political deaths.

It amazes me ... how many millions of artists (all of us are guilty) have broken all the copyright ethics and rules (on so many levels)!!! 

IIRC, SC doesn't comprehend the evolving rules!  They are forced to comply with rules/ethics that no one understands ... as are we.  The 'official rules' may change as the hypocrisy becomes more transparent.

Also, I think I'll follow GuitarHacker's signature on this as well:

BMI Songwriter
"When there is no way out - Find a way further in."

Hi Philip,
 
Thanks for the wacky thread.  Helps pass the down time at work.  I love it.
As for humming anyone's hook....no sweat...it's legal and fun and most songwriters would smile ear to ear to hear you doing it.
If you record or perform (for money) someone else's song and sell it and make money on their 'creation' i think it would be unethical on heaven and on earth.....although I know you are not talking about profiting from someone else's work...it's just the logical outcome in most cases of recording someone else's work.
 
Had to chime in....pardon me impetuousity!
 
BTW....did elvis actually get away with "love me tender" rights...which was an old civil war song Aura Lea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Me_Tender_(song) ?
Inconthhheeevable!
 
edit: bad spelling all over the place...sheeeeshhhh