Midi Fade out

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sharpdion23
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2011/06/19 23:50:03 (permalink)

Midi Fade out

Can you fade a midi clip like an audio clip or do you have to bounce to audio first and then apply the fade?

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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 00:15:52 (permalink)
    nope, because midi notes are just "note on" and "note off" message. You could automate the midi volume control CC7. 

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    js516
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 00:20:18 (permalink)
    If you mean the little red triangle on the edge of a clip, then no, since Midi is not audio. It is data and the only way to fade a midi clip is by adding volume CC events to the midi data.

    However, that is not a good idea, as you only have 128 values for a Volume CC. This shows up as "stair stepping" when you attempt to do a fade. Even worse, if you try to do a quick fade out, you may get the ugly zipper noise, if the synth cannot keep up. As it happens with older gear that has limited midi buffer memory.

    The best solution is to record the synthesizer's output as an audio clip and then you can add a fade to the audio clip as you normally do.
     

    post edited by js516 - 2011/06/20 00:23:37
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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 00:25:16 (permalink)
    hrm.. I thought there was more than 128 steps. I thought volume was ranged between -4096 to +4096. Dunno. I'm not too much of a midi expert :)

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    sharpdion23
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 01:16:17 (permalink)
    Ok thanks a lot!

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    frankandfree
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 06:40:45 (permalink)
    MIDI being data doesn't make it impossible to implement. The question is more whether it's feasible to do so. Fades on a MIDI clip could just send the MIDI volume CC, similar to an ordinary MIDI volume clip envelope. The problem would be to decide on which MIDI channel to send. To cater all possibilities it would need to be sent on all 16 channels, regarding that a clip could contain data on any of them.
    Whether that would be 128 values or 16383 depends on the method used. MIDI volume can be sent as combined message of CC7 (volume MSB) and CC39 (volume LSB), which can give 14bit resolution. Not all devices understand 14bit volume, though and if you were sending a 14bit fade for all 16 channels through a MIDI cable to outboard, I believe you'll be seriously hogging the stream with billions of volume messages. I don't think there would be a problem if you stay in the box, but I guess there would need to be options to decide whether it uses 7bit or 14 bit volume, and maybe even a possibility to restrict messages to certain channels.


    Some DAWs will use the volume and fade handles on clips to process note velocities. That's fairly nice, especially with drums, but of course very different from a fade. But it gets around all the data hog problems elegantly, as it just processes existing note messages. I don't use it much for faking a fade, but it's nice to adjust velocity ranges right on the clips with handles.

    All that said, you are better off anytime to do fades on the audio side of things. But it's not at all impossible just because it's MIDI.
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    rbowser
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    Re:Midi Fade out 2011/06/20 09:56:29 (permalink)
    You can also do an automated fade on the audio track associated with the MIDI track, instead of bouncing down.

    RB

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