Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes?

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ultralight
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2012/01/30 16:08:17 (permalink)

Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes?

Hi, I have a Godin Guitar with an Axon 50 interface. Do any of you know of a way to eliminate the artifact notes (ghost notes?) that I get? There must be a way to filter out MIDI notes that aren't as strong. Yes, I can edit them out after I record them but that's very time consuming. I have not had good results with the Axon software that came with the interface.
 
I love my MIDI guitar but haven't had great results so far.
 
Thanks!
 
 
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    lfm
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 16:52:54 (permalink)
    Have you looked into Midi FX - which are plugins that can do plenty in realtime of such processing as you ask about.

    Have a look at what is in Sonar to start with. I don't remember how much of these can do realtime processing as well.

    Free Midi FX stuff can be found at:
    http://www.tencrazy.com/gadgets/mfx/

    I think he has a small fee nowadays:
    http://www.midi-plugins.de/

    And many new places to look:
    http://www.midiplugins.com/
    #2
    mrBun
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 18:02:58 (permalink)
    Aah that's the age old question isn't it?
    I've used MIDI guitar in the studio since the first guitars came along in the 80s.
    Always been a PITA to edit.

    These days I pretty much just record it as audio as it just saves me heaps of time. I just loop the section and overdub until I get a goodun'.

    I also have an AXON 19" rack unit around here somewhere but use the Roland GR55 module with the Axon pu plugged into a Les Paul standard. I am just back in from Xmas holidays and plugged it in this morning and will definitely need to reset the sensitivity as I am getting lots of random notes.

    There may be a Cakewalk CAL routine that eliminates notes based on velocity somewhere on the net. 

    Last time I looked the Axon forum was limping along but active... Sadly, Terratec is famous for dumping support of their products and the Axon is no exception. 
    I fell in love with this company back when the EWS64XL (with Ed!son and Waldorf synths) had a fanatical fanbase and lots of excellent mods being made for it... then they dropped the ball big time.
    The Axon was IMO their last hurrah. As I said, it is in an fx rack here along with a bunch of OB gear that doesn't see much action.

    Again I'd recommend sniffing out a CAL routine on google or by checking inside Sonar.
    Hope this helps :)

    #3
    jimkleban
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 18:24:31 (permalink)
    I use an AXON and it is great... however, it is quite easy to select the bum notes... use the SELECT by filter and then select real low velocities and or notes that fall outside the notes of the guitar part and hit DELETE...

    But, what I usually do to get rid of most of the junk is to zoom out in PRV and select 90% of the bum notes using the mouse to draw a rectangle around the bad notes that are too high or too low, then use the select by filter to select the other junk there.

    I use a GHOST MIDI pickup system with my AXON and compared to the ROLAND or YAHAMA one I had before, this one is like the rolls royce of MIDI pickups.

    Jim

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    #4
    Keebo
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 18:49:10 (permalink)
    You might try Deglitch. From the Help file: Deglitch dialog The Process Deglitch command opens the Deglitch dialog box. When recording MIDI guitar, even the best players occasionally play unintended notes. The Deglitch feature allows you to filter out many of these unintended notes. There are three filters in the Deglitch dialog: Pitch With the Pitch filter you can set the maximum pitch allowed in the track. If a MIDI event has a higher pitch than the maximum you set, it is removed. Velocity With the Velocity filter you can set a minimum velocity allowed in the track. If a MIDI event has a lower velocity than the one you set, it is removed. Duration With the Duration filter you can set a minimum note duration for the track in either ticks or milliseconds. If a MIDI event has a shorter duration than the one you set, it is removed. *EDIT* Typical Firefox formatting BS.

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    #5
    Jumbicat
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 20:33:08 (permalink)
    "There must be a way to filter out MIDI notes that aren't as strong" Not that I know of. The AX-50 is sending the "ghost" notes so the DAW thinks it's a valid note. After many hours of adjustments, I finally got my AX-50 down to 1 or 2 ghost notes every now and then. If the unit is not set up correctly, you'll have ghost notes all the time. Is your set up String mode set to Common/Separate? Quantize set to Auto/trigger What kind of playing style are you recording?

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    #6
    elijahlucian
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 20:36:00 (permalink)
    I asked about this a long time ago and I am also interested. I use the roland GK-3 with the GR-20 to send the midi (i know it's old)


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    #7
    vintagevibe
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/30 23:17:39 (permalink)
    Deglitch is specifically designed for this issue.
    #8
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/31 03:52:59 (permalink)
    The specific function you want for this used to be called Interpolate in 8.5 & previous.

    It's still there in X1 but not under that name - try selecting all your data and going through whatever's on the Edit Menu, I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

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    #9
    mattplaysguitar
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/31 03:55:24 (permalink)
    Ummm, MIDI event filter... It's kinda EXACTLY for that... In every version of SONAR since the dark ages...



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    #10
    b rock
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/01/31 10:41:34 (permalink)
    There must be a way to filter out MIDI notes that aren't as strong. Yes, I can edit them out after I record them but that's very time consuming.

     
    A hardware solution [MIDI Solutions Event Processor or Event Processor Plus] can minimize, transform, or eliminate them before they ever reach the DAW.  These are inline MIDI processors that can be programmed to do just about anything.
     
    I use the Processor Plus in so many different ways that I can (almost) justify adding a second or third one.  It's hooked up to a MIDI router in my rack, so it's possible to 'insert' the device before or after keyboards, guitar synth, MIDI-capable effects, etc.
    #11
    cecelius2
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/02/02 03:33:44 (permalink)
    vintagevibe

    Deglitch is specifically designed for this issue.

    +1 on Deglitch.  I have two Axon 100's and a Roland GI-20.  I also use Godin midi guitars, both an LGXSA and a Multiac nylon.  Even with the Axon's great tracking and even with years of developing a careful midi guitar playing technique, those ghost notes do get by.  Deglitch is so easy to use, and it works great.  BTW Craig Anderton has a short chapter on using Deglitch for cleaning up midi guitar in his video Sonar X1 Advanced Workshop:  The Next Level.
    post edited by cecelius2 - 2012/02/02 22:09:51




    #12
    Crg
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/02/02 19:33:54 (permalink)
    Midi does not know harmonic combinations or altered unisons. Any two or three notes sounded-struck in such away as to create a note made of combining frequencies is going to create a ghost note which midi will approximate and notate whatever is the closet in its library. It will not be what you played, what you created with the harmonic recombination of string reverbarations or what midi picked up. It will be a best midi guess because there is no note number for blended-recombined-unison notes in midi. There has to be a certain amount of... "space" between notes for midi to notate them. If they are too close together and blend, you get a ghost note which is not what you wanted. I haven't found a way to make the voice of guitar happen in midi in such a way that the harmonic voice inherent in guitar gets registered in midi. You might not get what you want even after deleting the ghost notes.

    Craig DuBuc
    #13
    ultralight
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/02/04 18:03:52 (permalink)
    Those are some great ideas. I will try the midi event filter, the interpolate function and the deglitch function (I have done that one before). The hardware Event Processor Plus sounds like it is worth researching a bit more, too. Thanks to all of you!
    #14
    lfm
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    Re:Midi Guitar: how can I filter out the artifact notes? 2012/02/05 04:32:50 (permalink)
    Crg


    Midi does not know harmonic combinations or altered unisons. Any two or three notes sounded-struck in such away as to create a note made of combining frequencies is going to create a ghost note which midi will approximate and notate whatever is the closet in its library. It will not be what you played, what you created with the harmonic recombination of string reverbarations or what midi picked up. It will be a best midi guess because there is no note number for blended-recombined-unison notes in midi. There has to be a certain amount of... "space" between notes for midi to notate them. If they are too close together and blend, you get a ghost note which is not what you wanted. I haven't found a way to make the voice of guitar happen in midi in such a way that the harmonic voice inherent in guitar gets registered in midi. You might not get what you want even after deleting the ghost notes.

    A guitar midi interface with a sensor for each string should be able to distinguish pretty good what is basefrequency and since only one note from each string is present.

    Electro Harmonix POG2 (Polyphonic Octaver) senses polyphonic material pretty good from audio even. So algorithms develop over time it seems. POG2 is really nice.

    #15
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