Midi Keyboard Controllers

Author
Mosvalve
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1194
  • Joined: 2009/11/20 20:49:33
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Status: offline
2018/08/03 01:05:36 (permalink)

Midi Keyboard Controllers

I am curious about something. When using softsynth pianos for example does the midi controller matter as far as effecting the sound and or the softsynth piano articulations etc? I guess what I am asking is does a controller effect the Realism of the piano? Does what I'm asking make sense?

BobV 
 
 
 
ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    pwalpwal
    Max Output Level: -43 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3249
    • Joined: 2015/01/17 03:52:50
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/03 10:24:46 (permalink)
    i reckon the hardware quality of velocity-recognition/keys on the keyboard/controller, and the detail level of the (multi-velocity-)samples, could both affect the realism...?

    just a sec

    #2
    dcumpian
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4124
    • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/03 13:11:58 (permalink)
    It does not affect the sound quality directly, but it does affect the feel of how you play the instrument. A fully weighted keyboard with a full range of velocities captured and transmitted will improve the authenticity of what is played. On the other hand, with the ability to edit midi after the fact, you can achieve much of this by simply editing the velocities and release times in the PRV. It is more work this way, and will remove you a step from the music playing aspect and push you towards music programming.
     
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #3
    TheMaartian
    Max Output Level: -47.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2774
    • Joined: 2015/05/21 18:30:52
    • Location: Flagstaff, AZ
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/03 16:04:38 (permalink)
    And then you play something like Lounge Lizard, which is modelled, not sampled, and you see how really expressive the same keyboard can be with a different keyboard VST.

    Intel i7 3.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB HD Win10 Home 64-bit Tascam US-16x08
    Studio One 4 Pro NotionMelodyne 4 Studio Acoustica 7 Guitar Pro 7
    PreSonus FaderPort Nektar P6 M-Audio BX8 D2 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro
    NI K9U XLN AK, AD2 AAS VS-2, GS-2, VA-2, EP-4, CP-2, OD Toontrack SD3, EZK
    #4
    eikelbijter
    Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1002
    • Joined: 2003/11/13 22:23:52
    • Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/03 19:15:22 (permalink)
    It certainly DOES affect (not "effect" by the way, that means to "result in") the sound simply because the velocity response is different in every type. Most controllers have very limited dynamic range; for instance the Akai MPK49 feels great when playing it without any sounds, but when you route it to a piano VSTi you realize that it's almost impossible to play softly. Even at 20% of my maximum power, it sounds like I'm banging a full power on a piano!
    R

    Xeon E3-1231V3, 16GB RAM, 480GB 840EVO SSD, MOTU 2480MK3, 424PCI w/ Sonar Platinum
    Dell XPS 18, i5, 12GB RAM, 500GB SSD+128GB SSD, Roland VS-100 w/ Sonar Platinum

    Dell XPS 13, i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB 840EVO SSD, Zoom UAC-2, Sonar Platinum

    http://www.RicoBelled.com/

    #5
    Mosvalve
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1194
    • Joined: 2009/11/20 20:49:33
    • Location: New Jersey
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/03 21:22:02 (permalink)
    Thanks you're comments are very helpful. I'm not a piano player but can play enough to get by on my own songs. I have an old Fatar TMK 88 controller and I'm just not happy with the way playback sounds. I think getting a newer controller with weighted keys and newer technology will produce better results with the newer softsynth piano's, strings etc.

    I'm looking at this Roland, Roland A88 88 Key MIDI Keyboard Controller or something like it maybe a little cheaper but it has to be 88 keys.

    https://www.americanmusic..om/Item--i-ROL-A88-LIST


    Any recommendations is helpful.

    Thanks

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #6
    RSMCGUITAR
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1318
    • Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
    • Location: Toronto
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/04 00:35:21 (permalink)
    My cheapo M-Audio Oxygen49 has about 10 different velocity curves. I haven't explored them that much but I would assume most controllers have the capability.
    #7
    Jesse G
    Max Output Level: -32.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4282
    • Joined: 2004/04/14 01:43:43
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/04 00:40:22 (permalink)
    RMSCGUITAR,
     
    You know that face with those dark eyes is only one a mother could love.    What is it any way?
     

    Peace,
    Jesse G. A fisher of men  <><
    ==============================
    Cakewalk and I are going places together!

    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Windows 10 Pro- 64 bit, Gigabyte GA-Z97X-SLI, Intel Core i5-4460 Haswell Processor, Crucial Ballistix 32 GB Ram, PNY GeForce GTX 750, Roland Octa-Capture, Mackie Big Knob, Mackie Universal Controller (MCU), KRK V4's, KRK Rockit 6, Korg TR-61 Workstation, M-Audio Code 49 MIDI keyboard controller.[/
    #8
    RSMCGUITAR
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1318
    • Joined: 2014/12/27 02:33:15
    • Location: Toronto
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/04 02:55:28 (permalink)
    Jesse G
    You know that face with those dark eyes is only one a mother could love.    What is it any way?
     


    Just a quick doodle in Paint. hah
    #9
    BobF
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8124
    • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:43:11
    • Location: Missouri - USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/05 20:01:57 (permalink)
    Based on my LX61+, I suggest you at least try out a LX88+ (Nektar).
     
    My 61 is "synth action" - the 88 is semi-weighted
     
     

    Bob  --
    Angels are crying because truth has died ...
    Illegitimi non carborundum
    --
    Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64
    Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s 
    Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U

    #10
    dcumpian
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4124
    • Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/06 12:39:44 (permalink)
    Mosvalve
    Thanks you're comments are very helpful. I'm not a piano player but can play enough to get by on my own songs. I have an old Fatar TMK 88 controller and I'm just not happy with the way playback sounds. I think getting a newer controller with weighted keys and newer technology will produce better results with the newer softsynth piano's, strings etc.

    I'm looking at this Roland, Roland A88 88 Key MIDI Keyboard Controller or something like it maybe a little cheaper but it has to be 88 keys.

    https://www.americanmusic..om/Item--i-ROL-A88-LIST


    Any recommendations is helpful.

    Thanks




    For the price, I would recommend the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88. Same 88 weighted keys, but you also get aftertouch and 8 rotary controllers that can send any continuous controller message.
     
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #11
    mettelus
    Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5321
    • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
    • Location: Maryland, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/06 14:41:57 (permalink)
    Just a couple quick comments toward purchase (not specific to product):
    1. If you are not familiar with hardware, going to a music store and actually playing with one (or several) will let you know how the keys respond. You cannot test workflows typically, but can get a feel for boards (action, etc.).
    2. When you do purchase, be sure to buy from a place with a 30-day return policy, since "on paper technically" vs "reality" might not mate for you.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #12
    azslow3
    Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3297
    • Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
    • Location: Germany
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/06 14:53:54 (permalink)
    Find a place to test several keyboards. After some "research", you can test DPs instead of pure MIDI output devices. Simpler to test and normally you can find a DP with the same action as targeted controller.
     
    There are several producers: Fatar, Roland, Yamaha, Kawai, Korg, Casio and PRC native producer known under many names. Most (all?)  devices from respectful companies not int hat list (f.e. NI) use Fatar. "No name" sometimes use entry level Fatar, sometimes PRC native keys.
     
    Each producer has several action types (all have lightweight", "normal" and "with wood", Yamaha and Kawai have models with real instrument mechanic). All of them are different (toward to the "top end", own piano skills required to notice that difference). There is no universally the best action. F.e. technically the best Kawai VPC1 (real mechanic) is still typical Kawai action (in "lightness" and the shape), which some people can find worse then less realistic but more "heavy" and traditional in shape Yamaha "normal / with wood" actions.
     
    But with exception of "no go" actions (f.e. M-Audio Keystation Pro, PRC native and some entry level Fatar), I do not think the difference for not pure piano music (just occasional melody/chords/arpeggio) can justify a dedicated piano controller. Good synth actions (without hammer mechanic) can produce reasonable results with a piano VST, while are simpler to use for all other instruments. The key point is how good particular person can keep the velocity on particular device under control. That is the person specific, even for devices which technically allow that (most controllers from known producers). 

    Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
    GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
    RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
    www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
    #13
    Mosvalve
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1194
    • Joined: 2009/11/20 20:49:33
    • Location: New Jersey
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/07 23:17:45 (permalink)
    This is all great information and will help me decide the best controller for me. I greatly appreciate your help.

    BobV 
     
     
     
    ASUS Prime Z370-P - Intel Core i7+ 8700K 3.7GHZ 16GB Memory, Intel HD Graphics 630 GPU,  Windows 10 Pro 64bit,  , Sonar Platinum 64bit, Motu 828MK3 Hybrid, Warm Audio TB12 Pre, Warm Audio WA273 Pre, AEA RPQ 500 Pre, Warm Audio WA76 Compressor, Presonus D8 Pre, Tonelux EQ5P 500 Eq, Kush Electra 500 Eq, Lindell PEX 500 Eq, Yamaha 80M monitors with HS10W Sub,  and a bunch of other good stuff. I have a Roland Juno-106 that's looking for a new home. PM me.
    #14
    Jim Roseberry
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9871
    • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
    • Location: Ohio
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi Keyboard Controllers 2018/08/08 13:33:51 (permalink)
    Mosvalve
    I'm looking at this Roland, Roland A88 88 Key MIDI Keyboard Controller or something like it maybe a little cheaper but it has to be 88 keys.

    https://www.americanmusic..om/Item--i-ROL-A88-LIST



    The Roland A88 MIDI controller is popular with composers.
     
    +1 on Dan's Komplete Kontrol S88 recommendation
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #15
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1