Mogus Rougus
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Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
Hi folks, I'm shopping for a new midi keyboard. Something mid-range that performs well with Platinum, and is easy to map (preferrably auto mapping). The M-audio code 61, and the Novation Launchkey 61 both looks great but I am not sure if they will be easy to integrate to SONAR (I am a complete beginner at mapping). Please let me know if you can recommend a mid-range keyboard that works out of the box (or close to) and weds blissfully with SONAR PLATINUM.
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Wookiee
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 12:10 AM
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☼ Best Answerby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:57 PM
By MAP do you mean it easy to set up the control knobs etc on the keyboard?
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TheMaartian
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 1:07 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:57 PM
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chuckebaby
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 1:16 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:57 PM
its a lot simpler than you think, almost any controller that sends midi messages will do.
I use an M Audio Oxygen and as luck has it, there is a control surface set up for it in preferences.
My opinion is if you want to get a good idea on how easy a controller will work is either:
A- Respond to this post and others will share info
B- Look in Preferences/ Control surface or ACT and see the list of Controllers sonar supports.
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Thedoccal
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 1:52 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:58 PM
I use the A-Pro series keyboards with Sonar since the keyboard is made for use with Sonar Platinum. I have an A-300 and 800.
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Marshall
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 2:51 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:58 PM
Thedoccal
I use the A-Pro series keyboards with Sonar since the keyboard is made for use with Sonar Platinum. I have an A-300 and 800.
^^ + 1 - really good choice for working with Sonar.
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tenfoot
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 3:47 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:58 PM
+another one for the A-Pro keyboards. Best out of box Sonar integration by a long shot.
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Vastman
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 4:07 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:59 PM
tenfoot
+another one for the A-Pro keyboards. Best out of box Sonar integration by a long shot.
lots of posts over the years frustrated with this choice. I considered them when looking awhile back... thoroughly scoured the market and ended up with a Nektar as they've made a good template for Sonar in their lx series. I'm likely gonna get the new lx-88+ as it's an improvement over my lx-61 and one of the only 88 keyboards with decent semi-weighted keys which many of us want. cheaper. lighter. newer. good for keyswitching vsts... Here's a forum members eval on the prior lx-88
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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azslow3
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 5:11 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 20, 16 5:59 PM
A-Pro and LX (but NOT Panorama) are the only keyboards on the market which support Sonar explicitly. They do this by specialized plug-ins (binary programs, NOT "a template"). Behringer Motör has (claims) Mackie support, so has somehow "extended" functionality. All other keyboards can be configured throw standard Sonar plug-ins, but the result is rather limited. There is alternative universal plug-in written by me, but there are just several presets created by users and making good new one is not simple (well.. to provide the functionality the same as in A-Pro and LX it is simple... but you will immediately wish much more  )
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Mogus Rougus
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 6:03 PM
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Thank you so much folks, that is very helpful, and it looks like there a couple of distinct favourites.
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Vastman
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 7:44 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 21, 16 1:03 AM
azslow3
A-Pro and LX (but NOT Panorama) are the only keyboards on the market which support Sonar explicitly. They do this by specialized plug-ins (binary programs, NOT "a template"). Behringer Motör has (claims) Mackie support, so has somehow "extended" functionality. All other keyboards can be configured throw standard Sonar plug-ins, but the result is rather limited. There is alternative universal plug-in written by me, but there are just several presets created by users and making good new one is not simple (well.. to provide the functionality the same as in A-Pro and LX it is simple... but you will immediately wish much more )
azslow3 knows... he da man... Many of us wish the Bakers would hire him to create whatever's needed to integrate our belovid daw with other devices...so they work out of the box for dummy's like me!
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tenfoot
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 10:22 PM
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Vastman
tenfoot
+another one for the A-Pro keyboards. Best out of box Sonar integration by a long shot.
lots of posts over the years frustrated with this choice. I considered them when looking awhile back...
Given that 3 users have already commented positively in this thread and that I am sitting behind one that most definitely worked out of the box, and that your entire experience is that you 'considered it', I have to say your comment is highly speculative at best, or more precisely flat out wrong vastman:) I can only ascribe user error if others have been 'frustrated' as you claim. Aslow, whom you rightly describe as 'da man' also lists it as one of only two contenders. As always, he is absolutely right!
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Vastman
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 20, 16 11:33 PM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 21, 16 3:49 AM
Bruce, I may have been remembering all the problems with the PRC rolands... Regardless, both keyboards are in a similar price catagory with pretty much similar features.... It's best to try them both before you buy or get a solid return promise from a vender like Sweetwater... The APro/nektar they have different modulations... nextar has 2 traditional... pitch and assignable CC wheels whereas Roland has choosen a single lever system. While I don't like that system, you DO have an expression peddle input which I wish the Nektar had...especially for orchestral stuff I'm wankin' with these days.... Different strokes for different folks... I doubt either camp has both keybds! This thread has been useful as I've been considering keeping my Nektar for sonar control as it's a nice semi-weighted fast playable semi-weighted keyboard and getting an NI Komplete Kontrol S88, because the colored light guide is amazing and really helps manage all the keyswitches and playing zones. To me, this is the best of both worlds as many venders are adopting NI's NKS format so all such instruments automatically MAP to the keyboard... with the lightguide... with 2 assignable ribbon controllers... expression.... aftertouch.... The Nektar/S Kontrol combo is a bit cheaper than the A-Pro/S Kontrol combo but u would gain another input for an assignable footpeddle for the extra money! My ideal proposed solution thus becomes a NI Kontrol S keyboard...maybe the 61 size, which is good for the SUPER light guide and for sample libary/vst control (Orange Tree, Spitfire, Heavyocity, SampleLogic, and a long rapidly growing list of vst's/vendors ) and maybe a smaller A-pro or Nektar for transport/sonar controls... BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!! And you have an extended (beyond 88) keyboard range at your behest, which is very useful in some libraries like piano, with extended playing ranges plus keyswitches......and/or assigning multiple instruments withing vst's like Omnisphere to different parts of the extended/combo keyboard for real time playing... Lots of advantages here! Good night all... This has been theraputic...
Dana We make the future... Climate Change MusicVastMaschine:SP4L/W10/i74930K/32GB/RME/CAD E100s; The Orchestra! NOVO!/Inspire/BohemianViolin&Cello, ARK1&2,/MinimalCapriccioMaximoSoto/OE1&2, Action&Emotive/Omni2/Tril/RMX/All OrangeTree/Falcon/APE Jugs/Alpha&Bravo/BFD3 & SD3Gravity/DM307/AEON/DM/Damage/Diva/HZebra/Hive/Diversion/VC4/Serum/Alchemy/blablablaSpitfire/8DIO/SL/KH/EW/NI; Shred1&2/AGF,G,M&T Torch&Res&Ren/GD-6; Ibanez SR1200&SR505NOVAX FanFret Tele&Strat
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 21, 16 2:18 AM
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☄ Helpfulby Mogus Rougus November 21, 16 3:49 AM
I wonder what people mean with "working with Sonar" as any midi keyboard (or other midi controller) will basically work just fine "out of the box" for recording midi and playing softsynths. Do you mean transport and mixing controls of Sonar itself? Would you really want to do that from your keyboard?
It's worth noting that softsynths each have their own mapping and whether a given controller "works with Sonar" has very little to do with whether or not good templates for controlling favorite softsynths are included. That said, almost all modern softsynths have decent "midi learn" functionality.
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azslow3
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 21, 16 4:36 AM
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Sanderxpander
I wonder what people mean with "working with Sonar" as any midi keyboard (or other midi controller) will basically work just fine "out of the box" for recording midi and playing softsynths. Do you mean transport and mixing controls of Sonar itself? Would you really want to do that from your keyboard?
The "integration" with a DAW (not only Sonar) means controlling the DAW and/or indirectly controlling VST(i) plug-ins. So transport, mixing, FX, shortcuts, etc.
It's worth noting that softsynths each have their own mapping and whether a given controller "works with Sonar" has very little to do with whether or not good templates for controlling favorite softsynths are included. That said, almost all modern softsynths have decent "midi learn" functionality.
That is almost true for softsynths. Pure VSTi protocol supports: a) MIDI input for whatever processing by VSTi. That is what is possible to "MIDI Learn" (when supported) or at least control with MIDI (when fixed) b) "automation parameters". Most VSTi expose parameters to DAW using this mechanism, "duplicating" the possibility to control the same parameters by MIDI. Since unlike 7bit standard MIDI (1-127) this approach can have arbitrary precision, for some parameters using track automations instead of MIDI CC has advantage (f.e. frequency). Only VST Host (DAW or other "Host in Host" like AutoMap, NKS or Advance) can "translate" MIDI (or something else like OSC/EUCon) into automation parameters changes. c) "bulk" preset loading/saving. That is how current "state" is save into the Project file. Only DAW mechanism (or "host in host", as mentioned before) can be used to change these presets. Normally VSTis are NOT providing MIDI bindings for such operations since presets can not be loaded in "real time" (think of loading big set of samples into memory) Also FX VST are normally not associated with MIDI input (except may be guitar FXes), so they can not be controlled using method (a). Yet another point is the "feedback". MIDI learn approach is not giving any feedback, so "advanced" functionality of modern keyboards (encoders with rings, motor faders, displays) can be used with (b) method only. With that in mind, the host integration (either in Sonar or inside "host in host") plays significant role in plug-ins inter-operation with controllers even in case "MIDI learn" is possible inside these plug-ins.
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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tenfoot
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 21, 16 5:01 AM
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Vastman
My ideal proposed solution thus becomes a NI Kontrol S keyboard...maybe the 61 size, which is good for the SUPER light guide and for sample libary/vst control (Orange Tree, Spitfire, Heavyocity, SampleLogic, and a long rapidly growing list of vst's/vendors ) and maybe a smaller A-pro or Nektar for transport/sonar controls... BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!!
Great call Dana - exactly the setup I would like as soon as my mid size keyboard dies!
Bruce. Sonar Platinum 2017-09, Studio One 3.5.3, Win 10 x64, Quad core i7, RME Fireface, Behringer X32 Producer, Behringer X32 Rack, Presonus Faderport, Lemure Software Controller (Android), Enttec DMXIS VST lighting controller, Xtempo POK.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 21, 16 6:19 AM
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azslow3
Sanderxpander
I wonder what people mean with "working with Sonar" as any midi keyboard (or other midi controller) will basically work just fine "out of the box" for recording midi and playing softsynths. Do you mean transport and mixing controls of Sonar itself? Would you really want to do that from your keyboard?
The "integration" with a DAW (not only Sonar) means controlling the DAW and/or indirectly controlling VST(i) plug-ins. So transport, mixing, FX, shortcuts, etc.
It's worth noting that softsynths each have their own mapping and whether a given controller "works with Sonar" has very little to do with whether or not good templates for controlling favorite softsynths are included. That said, almost all modern softsynths have decent "midi learn" functionality.
That is almost true for softsynths. Pure VSTi protocol supports:
a) MIDI input for whatever processing by VSTi. That is what is possible to "MIDI Learn" (when supported) or at least control with MIDI (when fixed)
b) "automation parameters". Most VSTi expose parameters to DAW using this mechanism, "duplicating" the possibility to control the same parameters by MIDI. Since unlike 7bit standard MIDI (1-127) this approach can have arbitrary precision, for some parameters using track automations instead of MIDI CC has advantage (f.e. frequency). Only VST Host (DAW or other "Host in Host" like AutoMap, NKS or Advance) can "translate" MIDI (or something else like OSC/EUCon) into automation parameters changes.
c) "bulk" preset loading/saving. That is how current "state" is save into the Project file. Only DAW mechanism (or "host in host", as mentioned before) can be used to change these presets. Normally VSTis are NOT providing MIDI bindings for such operations since presets can not be loaded in "real time" (think of loading big set of samples into memory)
Also FX VST are normally not associated with MIDI input (except may be guitar FXes), so they can not be controlled using method (a).
Yet another point is the "feedback". MIDI learn approach is not giving any feedback, so "advanced" functionality of modern keyboards (encoders with rings, motor faders, displays) can be used with (b) method only.
With that in mind, the host integration (either in Sonar or inside "host in host") plays significant role in plug-ins inter-operation with controllers even in case "MIDI learn" is possible inside these plug-ins.
I bow to your superior knowledge of this issue. I guess I never bothered diving in that deep. Usually I just see a knob on screen, assign something on my board, and use that. I don't have any completely integrated solution.
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Mogus Rougus
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Re: Midi Keyboards that map easily to SONAR PLATINUM
November 21, 16 8:13 AM
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Thank you all for your contributions. The discussion has got way out of my league, but I have picked up a lot of info. This forum is most helpful.
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