dana martin
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Midi channel gain knob
Using Sonar Professional- does anyone know if its possible to automate the gain knob at the top of a midi channel?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/05 03:36:17
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dana martin
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/05 04:13:59
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Afraid of that. Thanks, Jonesey.
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chuckebaby
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/05 07:43:42
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I believe you can bounce it to an AUX track using live automation. might not what your looking for though.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/05 07:54:53
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It would usful to draw in as it's not midi volume but velocity. You could automate the dynamics of the playing (as opposed to the synths output)
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Cactus Music
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/05 13:26:04
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Yes one should not mix the two up,, Volume-Velocity. Even though velocity would seem like a volume envelope it is not so. It is more like the equivalent of hitting or strumming something harder or more aggressively. It does get louder but the timber changes too.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 01:20:22
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It's been mentioned before, but the gain midi gain knob should really be Volume of the synth. Velocity is not Gain, where as Midi Volume is closer to it. It's still not it as it the output level of a synth, not the input level of the track, but serves the same purpose. But as it is Velocity it would have benefits in being automatable as you don't actually have it in midi itself. Velocity is a note by note control, where as this control affects all the notes velocities
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williamcopper
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 09:21:24
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In midi terms, it seems that the Gain knob does exactly nothing, no matter how you set it. You can watch using a Midi Monitor -- nothing changes when it is moved. Nor does it appear to have any effect on track envelopes -- they are translated into Midi Control messages exactly the same way regardless of the Gain setting. (EDIT -- see correction in next comment -- it applies to the Velocity parameter of each Midi NOTE-ON event. )
post edited by williamcopper - 2016/10/06 10:51:02
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 10:12:36
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☄ Helpfulby williamcopper 2016/10/06 10:47:37
williamcopper In midi terms, it seems that the Gain knob does exactly nothing, no matter how you set it. You can watch using a Midi Monitor -- nothing changes when it is moved. Nor does it appear to have any effect on track envelopes -- they are translated into Midi Control messages exactly the same way regardless of the Gain setting.
I think i's a stage between the midi track out and the midi synth in, so is post editing (err fader) Insert AD2 as a Simplle Instrument track. Press I and select Midi from the track inspector. Right click the Track and select View> Piano roll. Enter straight 8th hats, Turn up an down the gain control in Insepector. You can both hear the tonal changes of velocity, and see the Vel+ fader on the Trck move. It does work, it's just not Gain. Now in the PRv drop the velocity of the alternate beats (to 64)and hear how they stopped being triggered when taken to zero, when the gain is at -64. It's not scaling from what I can tell but reducing everything by the same amount.
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williamcopper
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 10:28:26
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Right you are. Sorry for bad info. So it applies a fixed (numeric +/- 127) adjustment to the midi velocity for each midi note sent?
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 10:52:38
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It seems that way, I just ran some basic checks. Would better if it scaled and was automatible. Would breath some life and dynamics into fairly static programming.
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DrLumen
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 12:59:57
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I use it often as I can't set a velocity curve or offset in my pathetic controller. It does affect the velocity of instruments as an offset. Why would you want it to control the volume of a synth with the gain knob when you have a long slider to control the volume? In live audio it is used as a limiter to the preamp of the audio channel to prevent clipping. That is about as close as you will get in MIDI. Yes it may be misnamed but otherwise the console labels would have to change based on the track type. I haven't found a way that the knob itself can be automated (to be honest I never looked specifically) but it is always possible to draw the velocity in PRV. With that there is no real need to automate/track/poll the gain knob for MIDI instruments.
post edited by DrLumen - 2016/10/06 13:23:55
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 21:07:03
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I think if it scaled, then it would be more like a limiter, but lowest notes get the worst of the know, not the highest. I think calling it gain is just misleading, and attenuation of midi volume is more to gain than, velocity. I don't mind it being there, but being you see the Vel+ slider move at the same time, just call it Vel+, as that is what it is. It's called gain too looki consistant with the audio tracks, but it makes it inconsistent with itself. Only a handful of post bring it up, I don't think much people actually use it
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Cactus Music
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/06 21:58:05
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If it controls velocity then that is what it should be called, as I said don't get the two mixed up, with Velocity it does make things louder but it changes the timber, Volume just makes it louder.
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DrLumen
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/07 11:45:46
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I don't get the talk about it needing to scale. It does scale. The offset can be also be negative. As to changing timbre, if it were controlling an audio stream and the channel had a hot input or it the gain control was an active control (+/- db) then turning it up would affect the volume but the timbre could also be changed by clipping distortion. Since I'm probably one of the few that actually use it, the name of the knob would probably affect me more than others. For all I care it could be labeled Rat Anus Aperture so as long as it continues to work.
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Kamikaze
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Re: Midi channel gain knob
2016/10/07 12:07:59
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By scale I mean keep the ratio the same so they are treated proportionally. Vel+ I beleive reduced everything by a fixed amount. So lower velecites are affected more than higher. Note 1 Velocity 80 Note 2 Velocity 40 reduce by -20 and now Note 1 is Velocity 60 Note 2 is Velocity 20 The first reduced by 25%, the second 50% If it was proportionate or scaled it would be increasing or decreasing the dynamics of the playing. As it is it changing the dynamics in favour of the harder hits. EDIT: Just released an easier way to put it would be for the control to change by percent instead of a fixed amount EDIT:2 It dawned on me after reading your controller compliant that you may be having the opposite problem to me with your controller. My controller has the top 100 range, so 27-127. Mean I have to make sure and possible firmer hits. So I tend to use the gain for negative use. This risks loosing the lowest velocity notes, so scaling would prevent this Does you controller out put a low velocity, which then the gain needs turning up. This wouldn't do the same I guess as subtracting the Gain, I think. If every thing is going up, by 40, an 80 would become 120 (150) and a 40 become 80 (200%). So it's acting more like compression bringing up the low velocities. Also you don't loose note, the highest velocities max out and just level the playing. I have 2 controllers (Ants ate the third), and I have no proplem with my first. The Kord Nanopad and my (back home) trigger finger are both finger drum pads and don't respond to soft playing, with low notes not triggering, so I play with more velocity and may lower the gain a little
post edited by Kamikaze - 2016/10/08 05:46:54
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