Midi groove clips bug with the velocities?

Author
Geoffrey
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 124
  • Joined: 2009/09/12 14:11:21
  • Status: offline
2010/12/26 18:36:23 (permalink)

Midi groove clips bug with the velocities?

Anyone seen this before (sonar 8.5) or can replicate it?
1)   Insert battery 3 as a soft synth (I don't think it matters which soft synth I use, though).
2)  Lay down something, let's say just quarter note kick drums for 1 measure.
3)  Turn on "groove clips" and stretch it out to a longer repeating sequence (2 or more measures).
4)  Change some velocities in measure 1.  The changes don't replicate in the other measures; they seem to only copy at the time that the groove clip was made.
5)  Loop measure 1.  On the first iteration, the velocities play properly, but on the further iterations, the velocities seem to be some combination of the velocities in the 1st and 2nd measure.  If I stop, rewind and replay, I get the same thing--i.e., the first iteration is correct, the rest are not.f
6)  If I shrink the groove clip back to 1 measure, the problem goes away. 

Does anyone know anything about this?
Thanks.
#1

7 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/26 22:07:59 (permalink)
    I think that's working as intended. Groove clipping just copies whatever is in the original clip at the time you drag it out; the copies are not linked. This allows you to alter individual repetitions to add a little variety to the part. If you want linkage, copy the clip and paste as many repetitions as needed with Link to Original Clips checked.
    #2
    Geoffrey
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 124
    • Joined: 2009/09/12 14:11:21
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/28 20:44:06 (permalink)
    I understand that; that's not the issue.  The issue is the mixing of velocities, as described in numbers 5 & 6 in my original post.
    #3
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/29 01:12:44 (permalink)
    I understand that; that's not the issue. The issue is the mixing of velocities, as described in numbers 5 & 6 in my original post.

     
    Oops. Stopped reading carefully at the end there. Sorry about that. Yes, I can replicate that. Increasing the MIDI Prepare Using buffer under Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording resolved it, but I had to take it all the way up to 1000ms. I think this is an area that Cakewalk need to work on. There are way too many weird behaviors and resulting posts related to this setting.
     
    But this is the first one I've ever seen that require me to set my buffer above 500ms.
     
     
    #4
    ba_midi
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14061
    • Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/29 01:42:14 (permalink)
    brundlefly



    I understand that; that's not the issue. The issue is the mixing of velocities, as described in numbers 5 & 6 in my original post.

     
    Oops. Stopped reading carefully at the end there. Sorry about that. Yes, I can replicate that. Increasing the MIDI Prepare Using buffer under Preferences > MIDI > Playback and Recording resolved it, but I had to take it all the way up to 1000ms. I think this is an area that Cakewalk need to work on. There are way too many weird behaviors and resulting posts related to this setting.
     
    But this is the first one I've ever seen that require me to set my buffer above 500ms.
     
     
    I have kept my MPB at 250 for a long long time without issues.

    However, I'm doing backups so I can't try the OPs scenario.  If it's so, sounds like a bug to me.

    I've had my own various buggaboos tonight working in X1 as well.  First time I was doing a brand new track from scratch.  I ended up just stopping so I didn't have to beat my head against the wall any more ;)





    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #5
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/29 11:12:29 (permalink)
    I have kept my MPB at 250 for a long long time without issues.

     
    I used 250 also for a long time without issues. Then I encountered a problem a few months back where I was losing part of a drum track on mixdown, although playback was fine. The magic number to cure that problem turned out to be 259. At that point I decided to give myself a safety factor and go back to the default of 500ms.
     
    The whole concept is strange to me, and I've wished for a long time that Cakewalk would explain why it's needed, and exactly how it's implemented. Most synths can respond virtually instantaneously to real-time MIDI input, so I don't see why such a huge (in audio buffering terms) "MIDI" buffer is needed, and why you get these dropouts without it when, if I send the same data in as a real-time stream, everything plays fine.
     
    I also wonder whether other DAWs do this, either explicitly, or maybe without revealing it or giving you control over the buffer size.
    #6
    Geoffrey
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 124
    • Joined: 2009/09/12 14:11:21
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/31 12:24:22 (permalink)
    Thanks; raising the stated midi buffer to 1000 seems to have solved the problem (I think).  It also appears to have solved another problem--I was looping short 1-2 measure chunks of midi, and on playback, I would get (after the 1st iteration) bits of midi playback from a different part of the song overlaid over the selected loop.  Don't ask me why. 
    Geoff Collier
    #7
    ba_midi
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14061
    • Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Midi groove clips bug with the velocities? 2010/12/31 15:01:38 (permalink)
    brundlefly



    I have kept my MPB at 250 for a long long time without issues.

     
    I used 250 also for a long time without issues. Then I encountered a problem a few months back where I was losing part of a drum track on mixdown, although playback was fine. The magic number to cure that problem turned out to be 259. At that point I decided to give myself a safety factor and go back to the default of 500ms.
     
    The whole concept is strange to me, and I've wished for a long time that Cakewalk would explain why it's needed, and exactly how it's implemented. Most synths can respond virtually instantaneously to real-time MIDI input, so I don't see why such a huge (in audio buffering terms) "MIDI" buffer is needed, and why you get these dropouts without it when, if I send the same data in as a real-time stream, everything plays fine.
     
    I also wonder whether other DAWs do this, either explicitly, or maybe without revealing it or giving you control over the buffer size.

    Dave, I don't see other hosts even using such a thing as a prepare buffer, though that may simply mean they do it under the hood, so to speak.
     
    Strangely, I've never had an issue that changing my MPB fixed.  Lowering helped me more than raising it.  But I always keep it in mind when other problems happen, as things can be interrelated.
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #8
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1