Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast?

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chaunceyc
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2011/09/30 03:12:07 (permalink)

Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast?

I've got a new machine coming next week and am making the transition from XP 32 using 8.5.3 to Win 7 64 and wanted to approach the migration process correctly. 
 
To date, I've not been able to run X1 at all due to crashes on my current system (though 8.5.3 has continued to run fine on it), but hopefully a new state-of-the-art custom DAW from PC Audiolabs will correct that. 
 
One concern I have is the likely inability to open legacy projects - something tells me that compatibility is a pipe dream and that I will still need to run the old system indefinitely to successfully open the 1000+ Sonar 8.5 and earlier projects I have created over the years for production libraries, etc.   Nearly all of these projects contain numerous 32-bit VST plugins.  I haven't worked with jbridge or bitbridge at all, so don't know if it helps in opening up old projects.  I assume that I will need to install both the 32-bit and the 64-bit versions of VSTs in order to have any hope of opening old projects, but just having the old one installed won't accomplish much if I still need to reload them in one of these bridge. 
 
In a perfect world, if the equivalent 64 bit VST was available on the system, projects created using the 32-bit version of the VST would simply point to the 64-bit VST when they were opened, but I can't imagine that being the case here. 
 
So, I'm curious how Sonar handles the opening of files - does every old project just open up with a constant message  about "Plugin not Found" leaving you to figure out what plugin patches and parameter tweaks you made to each and every track and then try to reload them for every track and FX bin and recreate them from scratch?
 
I fear this is going to be the case - no backward compatibility with projects due to the change from 32 to 64.  Am I correct in assuming this?
 



PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional,

Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com)
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#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 03:39:32 (permalink)
    Not from a project point of view. I'm so impressed with the PC that I'm starting to remix some very old projects.

    I'm currently working on one which started life in V5 IIRC, might even have been V2. you may have problems with some plugins but I've found most will run under bitbridge and those that don't will usually run under JBridge.

    I don't think I found any that I couldn't get working except for one of Rolands own for my Sonic Cell.
    #2
    John
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 04:01:02 (permalink)
    I have projects going back to Pro Audio in the wrk file format and newer. Every one that I have opened in X1 has opened.

    What you may run up against are old plugins.  Old DX plugins are not going to port over but they didn't port over in Sonar XX 64 bit anyway. If you need these plugins install 32 bit X1 along side 64 bit X1.

    CW has an outstanding record in supporting old projects. X1 can read any old project files as long as they are not corrupted. If you have a good HD system that should not be a problem.

    Best
    John
    #3
    tyacko
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 07:56:27 (permalink)
    I know your frustration and for the most part for me the plugs that caused the most problems when I migrated from 32-bit to 64-bit were the WaveArts plugs I used.  They use a OS registry solution apparently in their install process that must look at the network card in the PC and create the registry info for the plug-in.  When I moved to a new PC for 64-bit (which of course has a different network card implemented), all of my projects that had WaveArt plugs would raise the "plugin not found" issue.  So, I had to remove them and apply the new installed version of the plugs (and reapply all the settings!!! Grrr...).

    I think the only Cakewalk issue I really saw was Dimension Pro not loading right and I had to reload the new version for that as well.

    It is very frustrating.  I wish they could create a way that allows you to browse to find a possible resolution rather than just "throwing their hands up".

    Tom

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    #4
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 08:55:47 (permalink)
    There is supposed to be 100% backward compatibility with ALL Cakewalk products. 

    The problem might be that once it is opened in X1 it will not open correctly in the older Sonar. 

    here's my experience. 

    I started on Cakewalk Pro8 ( preceded Sonar by a number of years and was the top of the line product in it's day) so this software is old. It's highest OS was Windows 95.  I had to upgrade the OS for business software so CWP8 stopped working since it was not supported nor were the audio drives ever updated by the sound card manufacturer.  I didn't record music for a number of years as a result. A number of years later, I bought Music Creator 4 which is a "beginner DAW". 

    I was able to open the old CWP8 projects from a CD bundle file.  A majority of the files opened just fine, but several were corrupted and would not open..... Likely from disk problems from setting on the shelf for a number of years. 

    Recently I upgraded to X1 and again I am still able to open the old MC projects with no problem and no loss of plugs or anything in them. 

    When I attempt to open the projects that I have recorded or edited in X1, with my old MC4, I see a warning pop up that says the project was created in a newer version of Cake and it might not contain all the audio data and other stuff..... O click OK and the pop up goes away and the project opens and runs properly with (seemingly) no loss of anything. 

    So have no fear.... old projects will load up just fine. 

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #5
    chaunceyc
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 11:38:14 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies.  That is very encouraging.  So, if I understand correctly...If I have installed the 32 bit version of the VST, X1 64 will handle all the bitbridge/jbridge wrapping when I launch an old project without me having to endlessly massage it?  Is this relatively painless and automatic?



    PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional,

    Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com)
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    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 14:05:40 (permalink)
    since I'm still on 32 bit OS... IDK the answer to that. 

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    #7
    chaunceyc
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 14:50:09 (permalink)
    I'm not worried about them being able to open - that usually isn't an issue.  The concern is that the new 64 vs. 32 bit plug-in environment will open these projects in a state that has nothing but disabled/missing plugins across the various tracks and FX Bins (and thus un-playable without a ton of reloading and re-assigning). Sonar generally is not very helpful in this regard - it simply offers to disable the missing plugins so the project can load, leaving you wondering what patches it used, what tweaks had been done to it, what the automation assignments were, etc.
     
    In my case, the plugin selection, finding the right sound (the patch selection) and subsequent tweaking represents a huge portion of the work on projects, so even a "simple" swapout of 10 plugins could be a half hour of futzing.

    I haven't seen a bunch of posts complaining about this, so maybe it is not an issue.  

    In any case, I am going to be diligent about putting the 32 and 64 bit plugin versions in separate areas and hope for the best.




    PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional,

    Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com)
    Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA
    nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house
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    #8
    chaunceyc
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 14:58:58 (permalink)
    I'm not worried about them being able to open - that usually isn't an issue.  The concern is that the new 64 vs. 32 bit plug-in environment will open these projects in a state that has nothing but disabled/missing plugins across the various tracks and FX Bins (and thus un-playable without a ton of reloading and re-assigning). Sonar generally is not very helpful in this regard - it simply offers to disable the missing plugins so the project can load, leaving you wondering what patches it used, what tweaks had been done to it, what the automation assignments were, etc.
     
    In my case, the plugin selection, finding the right sound (the patch selection) and subsequent tweaking represents a huge portion of the work on projects, so even a "simple" swapout of 10 plugins could be a half hour of futzing.

    I haven't seen a bunch of posts complaining about this, so maybe it is not an issue.  

    In any case, I am going to be diligent about putting the 32 and 64 bit plugin versions in separate areas and hope for the best.




    PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional,

    Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com)
    Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA
    nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house
    www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
    #9
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/09/30 15:54:33 (permalink)
    THe 32 vs 64 bit plug thing could be a problem, as I've heard there are compatability issues.

    I'm guessing you would need to update all your current 32 bit plugs and FX to their 64 bit cousins. If the upgrade would go as I would hope it would, at the end of it, when you load the projects, all the 32 bit plugs will have become 64 bit plugs with the same addresses and the project would open flawlessly...... we can hope right?


    If there are issues that needed resolving, I'd count that as growing pains...the price of upgrading the OS. I'd then do everything needed to get the platform working properly again.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    #10
    chaunceyc
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/10/11 01:45:06 (permalink)
    A quick update on this - happily, it appears that old projects are opening fine in both X132 and X164 as long as the 32-bit version of the plugin is installed.  No futzing around needed. 

    After my near-year of not being able to use X1 on my old rock-solid 8.5.3 machine, I have to say I'm very happy with the speed and stability of X1 64 on this new machine - can't really get it to break a sweat. 

    Now, if I could only get rid of the ghastly light gray clips on slightly lighter gray foreground with a background of medium gray with gray highlights with grayish fonts.  They should have called it G1 for Gray instead of X1.



    PC AudioLabs Rokbox 7 (Core i7 3.40GHz, Gigabyte Z-68, 20 GB Ram, Windows 10 64-bit), MOTU 2408 Mk II / PCI-424, UAD-2. Sonar Professional,

    Soulphonic Soundsystem (soulphonicsound.com)
    Convincing Woodgrain | Portland USA
    nujazz/brokenbeat/neo-soul/downtempo/deep house
    www.soundcloud.com/chaunceyc
    #11
    Lanceindastudio
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/10/11 03:43:55 (permalink)
    You can run 32 bit sonar X1 and 8.5.3 on the 64 bit OS like I do.

    I have the 64 bitversion installed of X1 for all my new projects.

    I can open any project I want from all my years of production in sonar.


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    #12
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/10/11 08:20:48 (permalink)
    SONAR X1 is backwards compatible loading projects created in any version of SONAR. This is irrespective of whether the file was authored in the 32 or 64 bit version. That plays no role in the data saved in the project file.
    The only caveat is that when loading a project you must have all plugins available. If not the plugin is replaced with a standin. Howevereven then there is no data loss since the plugin data itself is preserved.
    Once you resave the project in X1 earlier versions will display a compatibility warning but the actual data is still intact in the new file.

    Noel Borthwick
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    #13
    gcolbert
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    Re:Migrating to Win 7 64 - old projects are toast? 2011/10/11 20:46:20 (permalink)
    One thing that you may want to consider is that some of the old VST effects need to run with an administrator account on Win 7.  It seems that most Sonar users use an administrative account when running X1, however if you plan to let your DAW have access to theinternet you may want to set up a regular user account.  Running X1 with the regular user account may break some of your VSTs (Synths and audio effects).
     
    Glen
    #14
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