[Solved] Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more

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Bob E
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2017/10/06 20:27:15 (permalink)

[Solved] Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more

Hi,
I have been having various issues with recording and playback.  I am pretty knowledgeable with regards to computers, but some of these issues are mind boggling.  I have uploaded several videos to YouTube, (unlisted) describing and demonstrating my problem(s).  
I have no issues with any other recording and playback programs except for Sonar.  
I've been having these issues too often.  Enough to make using the software a gamble and a test of patience.
I have searched the forums and tried different things but no solutions.  

I hope you don't mind the video links.  I'm trying to make it easier for you to see what is happening.  A picture's worth a thousand words.
And I apologize for sounding aggravated and using a curse or two.  These issues must be related somehow.  I did my screen captures, showing these mysterious issues, in Camtasia, and had no probs recording audio and video in that program.
I also have had no other programs except Sonar Platinum open when I am having these issues.  I would be very appreciative to anyone who can help me with this. 

  1.) Recording a track,  I see the audio waveform recording, but when I hit stop, the recorded clip is gone.
sonar vanishing record take
sonar unrecorded after seeing waveform recording
  2.) After normalizing a track with multiple clips, the clips 'shuffle'  ???    
sonar normalizes and shuffles clips
  3.)  Audio dropouts at certain times within a file?  After saving file, it plays normally. ?
sonar issue rogue clip ex
  4.)     why is this happening in Sonar?
  5.)     sonar issue
  6.)    sonar audio engine error again
Sonar is an awesome, intuitive DAW and love it, when it's working correctly. 
Thanks,
Bob
Sonar Platinum,  Windows 10, Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz, 4001 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s), 32 GB of Ram, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970, Motu Ultralight Firewire 1394 interface, Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI compliant Host Controller, M-Audio Axiom 25 midi interface
 
 
edit: added [Solved] to subject - sc
post edited by scook - 2017/11/08 22:06:06
#1

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    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:28:50 (permalink)
    Ok,  I  guess the links showing the problems won't appear on the Sonar forum.  So, the above post has no links.
     
    #2
    scook
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:33:52 (permalink)
    You do not have sufficient posts to add links to your posts. I believe links are enabled around 25 posts.
    1. Is often caused when auto punch is enabled
    #3
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:38:34 (permalink)
    I posted another message near the end of April with this in the description
    "Disk overrun error while recording but I'm not recording, just playing back"
    I've been having these issues for a while.
    Here's the link,  which may not show up here.
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Disk-overrun-error-while-recording-but-Im-not-recording-just-playing-back-m3598716.aspx
     
    Thanks,
    Bob
    #4
    RSMCGUITAR
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:41:48 (permalink)
    Maybe paste the video links with spaces
    #5
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:44:12 (permalink)
    I did research that auto-punch post.  Unfortunately it's happening on new files without ever using the auto-punch feature. Thanks for the info though.
    #6
    scook
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:44:14 (permalink)
    Windows logs may provide a clue.
     
    BTW, the forum does not allow direct upload of images.
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:47:56 (permalink)
    Have you ever cleared the picture folder? The location of the folder is in Preferences > File > Audio Data.
     
    #8
    jpetersen
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 20:54:16 (permalink)
    Just as an aside, when you normalize multiple clips at once, Sonar puts them all into one single long .WAV file.
    What you see on the screen as separate clips are now only pointers into this single mega .WAV file.
     
    If your material is long, perhaps has hit some internal limits.
    #9
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 21:10:11 (permalink)
    I've tried having sonar recalculate the wave picture, and I've also tried using 2 Hard Drives in my troubleshooting.
    A SSD, and a 7200rpm.  Both no more than a year old.  So, I did point sonar to a different or new picture folder.
    I will try clearing the picture folder again.  RCMSGUITAR suggested to post the video links with spaces, to get them to show up here.  I added the letter 'm' to the beginning of the links.  Will that work? I'll see after I click post I guess. (just copy and paste the link without the 'm') hopefully.
    Thanks again!
     
    1.) Recording a track,  I see the audio waveform recording, but when I hit stop, the recorded clip is gone.
    mhttps://youtu.be/jpGYPdeY...bsp;    sonar vanishing record take
    mhttps://youtu.be/bra19tA_...bsp;    sonar unrecorded after seeing waveform recording

    2.) After normalizing a track with multiple clips, the clips 'shuffle'  ???    
    mhttps://youtu.be/sqoeGbsw...bsp;    sonar normalizes and shuffles clips

    3.)  Audio dropouts at certain times within a file?  After saving file, it plays normally. ?
    mhttps://youtu.be/cHLFmoI1...bsp;    sonar issue rogue clip ex
     
    4.)     mhttps://youtu.be/rdg37--fp_k    why is this happening in Sonar?

    5.)     mhttps://youtu.be/dTz7XoC8TQ4    sonar issue

    6.)    mhttps://youtu.be/CCw-KB2QcMc    sonar audio engine error again



    Bob
     
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    #10
    Jeffiphone
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 21:25:14 (permalink)
    Hmmm, interesting, as I had the exact same issue last night. I was recording a guitar part (no punch in's), saw the waveform drawing as I was recording. Hit stop when I was done, and the waveform disappeared. No sound, no waveform.
     
    This happened about 3 times in a row. Figured it must be some random glitch. On the 4th take, everything worked as normal, and didn't have any issues recording the rest of the session.
     
    ~Jeff

    Acer with i7 processer - Sonar Platinum 64bit - Windows 10 64 bit - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd Gen) -
    #11
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 21:53:07 (permalink)
    So, I thought the links would come through, but not quite.  If you click on the link you get a 404 not found message.
    However, if you remove all the gibberish at the end of the link, starting with the very first % sign. (percent sign)
    then you can see the video and the issues I am having.
     
    another test.
    https://youtu.be/bra19tA_1yI
     
    Thanks,
    Bob
     
     

    Bob
     
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    #12
    Anderton
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 22:01:49 (permalink)
    Well, it sure doesn't look like you're doing anything wrong, and it doesn't look like something where you can provide a recipe to reproduce. Does it happen on only this project, or other ones as well? Is it an older project? It does seem like all these problems are related, so I get the feeling if you solve one, the rest will follow. I'm reaching here, but...try saving as a bundle (cwb) file, then opening the bundle file. I hope you get this sorted out.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #13
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 22:02:47 (permalink)
    https://youtu.be/dTz7XoC8TQ4
    Ok, that one worked.
    1.Here it is again. sonar vanishing record take
    https://youtu.be/bra19tA_1yI
    2. another example of the same
    https://youtu.be/jpGYPdeY3EA
    3. Sonar normalizes and shuffles clips?
    https://youtu.be/sqoeGbswRzs
    4. Sonar rogue clip issue.
    https://youtu.be/cHLFmoI1NV0
    5.  a couple more videos, these probs must be related somehow
    https://youtu.be/rdg37--fp_k
    https://youtu.be/dTz7XoC8TQ4
    https://youtu.be/CCw-KB2QcMc
     
    Hoping these came through.  Not expecting that you watch all or even the a whole vid, but maybe we can fix a bug or two.  It's taken quite a bit of time to go though these screen capture processes.  Each time I sit down to 'make and record music' my session ends up doing these troubleshooting videos.
    I'd love to get on with it!
    Thanks,
    Bob E
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Bob
     
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    #14
    Anderton
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 22:06:55 (permalink)
    I can see the videos just fine...that's why it's so puzzling. Things like disappearing tracks and jumping cursors have never happened to me, so unfortunately, I can't say "oh yeah, I've seen that, it's because blah blah blah."
     
    Try the bundle thing and also, I'm still curious if it's unique to this project. IOW if you were to start something from scratch using a newer template, can you still get these things to happen.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #15
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 22:07:41 (permalink)
    Thanks Craig, I'm a big fan by the way! Sonar Tips and ezine, Sweetwater interview, etc..
    I did post a few more links, maybe sheds more light.

    Bob
     
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    #16
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 22:12:34 (permalink)
    Not unique to any one project.  There are several projects in the videos, and they are new projects. One of the files was created with a default Sonar template, (4 audio track). I only added Addictive Drums, simple instrument track, and a guitar track with an amp plugin. That's all.  Not even my own template.
    I will try the bundle.  Puzzling as heck!
    Thanks
    Bob E

    Bob
     
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    #17
    chuckebaby
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 23:21:12 (permalink)
    the disappearing wave for. Is it going to a take lane ? It looks like it is in the video (Take lane icon is light blue)
    What are your recording settings ? Create new lanes on over lap ? Put new take in to tracks ?
    I would also bounce the Melodyne data to the other audio clip (using bounce to clips/ it will heal the clips).
    I never use region FX then record over it unless I render that data first. But that's just me.
    It may, if anything give you an idea on whats happening to your material.

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    #18
    millzy
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 23:26:42 (permalink)
    I too have suffered from the disappearing recording, I feel your pain!
     
    Here's what I came up with a few years back, hope it helps.
     
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Solved-Recorded-clips-randomly-disappear-when-recording-stops-m2764221.aspx
     

    Millzy

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    #19
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/06 23:53:20 (permalink)
    Thanks for the input.  Only one of these files did I use Melodyne, and I don't believe that's the issue, as I don't use it very often.
    I am using 'comping' as my record method.  And set to 'store takes in a single track'.
     
    Check this one out, if you would.
    https://youtu.be/dTz7XoC8TQ4
     
    Audio dropout while recording?? I'm not recording. Error message says 'degragment' my drive. I've tried 2 drives. An SSD and a 7200rpm drive. Both less than a year old. I have no recording issues with any other programs except sonar platinum.
    This is a default Sonar template.  Only added Addictive Drums and Trilian Bass virtual instruments.
    This may be a different problem, but somehow I believe it's related, somehow.
     
    And thanks Millzy for the link.  I did come across this in my endless hours of frustrated troubleshooting. I unchecked 'allow arm changes during recording/playback.  No luck.
     
     
     
     
     

    Bob
     
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    #20
    millzy
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 00:16:04 (permalink)
    Is there any difference if you play the track first then hit 'R' to start/stop the recording, then stop the track??

    Millzy

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    #21
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 00:19:57 (permalink)
    Here is another single clip file.  It won't play. Today's issue.  I end up closing Sonar completely, (not just the file) and when I reopen the program, the clip plays.  Which means the wav file is ok, I assume.  Is there something going on with the timeline, where clips start.... end...??    who knows.   This is nuts.
    https://youtu.be/fTgwxiQqKAs
     
    Thanks,
    Bob E

    Bob
     
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    #22
    BRainbow
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 01:19:58 (permalink)
    Chuckebaby suggested the clips might be hidden in a take lane, but I didn't see you address that.  I've had your "disappearing recording" symptom happen for just that reason.  Open up and look at all the takes on the affected track to see if its there but was muted somehow (and therefor not showing in the main track).

    Cakewalk (forever), Two WIN10 64-bit DAWs: home-brew ASRock x299 Taichi / i7 7820x w/ 64GB RAM and ASUS X99A-II / i7-5820K w/ 32GB RAM, ZOOM UAC 8, Mackie ONYX 1640i FW Mixer/Interface, Mackie ONYX 1200F, Avalon U5 PreAmp, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, EastWest Composer CloudX, Yamaha MOTIF XS8, Ensoniq SD-1 and ESQ-1, Korg M1rEX, Yamaha TX-81Z, Roland D110, Line6 HELIX Rack and Native, POD HD-Pro, POD Farm 2.5, Yamaha NS-10 and Presonus Eris E8 monitors, Yamaha Disklavier Upright Piano, mics, guitars, basses, and the cutest little tambourine.
    #23
    msorrels
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 02:41:22 (permalink)
    Bob EError message says 'degragment' my drive.




    I haven't watched all the videos but in this video with the crazy misspelled error message, that project isn't saved. If I make a blank project with some blank audio tracks and just press play and watch what SONAR does it appears to be checking the root of my E: drive over and over again while playing.  E: is the drive where my default Cakewalk Project directory is.  I'd say you should start looking at the folder paths in Preferences->Folder Locations.  I could easily see failures if you didn't have full access rights on the drive specified in the Project Files path.  Most user's don't have rights on the root of C: for example.  But if you want to work out exactly what SONAR is doing you most likely going to have to run something like Microsoft's Process Monitor tool and see where it is trying to write to/read from.  I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is one of the paths in your Folder Locations doesn't exist (or has some other issue).  Or perhaps your Windows temporary directory(s) aren't correctly configured?
     
    Here's the Microsoft tool:
    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procmon
     
    When you run it setup a filter so that it only logs process names that contain "sonar" and then press play inside SONAR and see what it's trying to access.

    -Matt
     
    #24
    stickman393
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 03:22:32 (permalink)
    I've watched your vids and I agree, this is weird stuff. I think it all has a common root cause, and it looks to be hard drive related.
    Is it possible to list the contents of your "directory paths" that Sonar is using ? Maybe there's a clue there. What drive are you creating your projects on? Audio folders?
     
     
    #25
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 05:35:48 (permalink)
     I am looking into various suggestions. Thanks to all. Chuckebaby mentioned that he saw that the take lane button in track 2 was blue, meaning that there was a take on it. Invisible, though as I couldn't see it when I opened up the take lanes. The button probably shouldn't be blue. Hmm
    Also, I don't think that would stop me from recording onto track 3, as I tried later in this video. I appreciate your input greatly! Thanks again! Still working on solutions.  I plan on recording this evening and keeping an eye out for the causes.
    I will try the process monitor tool from Microsoft.  Thanks msorrals for that and the 'filter' detail.  I've tried two drives to see if there was a problem there.  Neither drive was my C: drive.  Everything in my folder preferences are set to my D drive, which is 7200rpm and in fine working condition.  (I tested out a SDD drive earlier in the week, pointing everything there.  Still had these issues, so now I am back to the 7200rpm drive)

    Bob
     
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    #26
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 05:56:10 (permalink)
    Clicking on the take lane button of an empty track turns the button blue and adds one empty take lane. (the default take lane).  The button stays blue until you delete (hit the x) the take.  Then it is normal.  I believe this is the default.
    So, the blue take lane button doesn't mean there is any data on the track.

    Bob
     
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    #27
    Kev999
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 07:46:54 (permalink)
    This may or may not be related, but I have seen recorded clips go weird and corrupted immediately after recording, although they did not disappear. Reinstalling the audio interface drivers fixed the problem. Anyway, I believe that it's worth a try in your case. Maybe update them if necessary.

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    #28
    jpetersen
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 10:50:12 (permalink)
    With the disappearing recordings, are the clips in your audio folder? (i.o.w., exists but is it just not being displayed?)
     
    There is just too much unrelated and crazy stuff happening here. The misspelling 'degragment' is indicative of how often this error message has been seen.
     
    Like stickman, I tend to think it's hardware failure we're looking at. Memory, HD driver hardware, faulty power supply (I had one with a leaking smoothing capacitor. Worked fine superficially but did crazy things when more power was drawn, like writing to HD)
     
    Is this a new PC, dedicated to music? Are other programs also misbehaving? If you had another DAW installed, this would be ideal because it will access similar drivers and hardware. Reaper is free with nag and could be used to try.
     
    Edit: In your videos you do actually say you have other software, video editing for example which would take hardware to similar limits as Sonar, and they work fine.
     
    OK, I give up. I have no further ideas to contribute.
    post edited by jpetersen - 2017/10/07 11:20:11
    #29
    Bob E
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    Re: Mind-boggling vanishing clips and more 2017/10/07 20:02:44 (permalink)
    Update:  this was more wishful thinking.  This is/was not the problem.
     
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I may have found the problem.  I occasionally use an accompaniment program  that only works at 44.1 kHz sample rate.  Band in a Box.  Because of this, my default Windows audio needs to be set at 44.1k and 16bit. 
    I only use an ASIO driver/interface with Sonar and all my projects are 48k 24bit. I don't use, or run, Band in a Box  while Sonar is running, but there was a virtual audio cable enabled on my system, linking Windows Audio to an ASIO input.
    I disabled the Virtual Audio cable, and so far, I haven't had these issues.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I had previous been able to record/track with no problems, even with these settings, (for a while, anyway)
     
    The virtual audio cable had worked fine in the past. (I use it to do tutorials, getting ASIO to stream to desktop capture programs such as Camtasia 9).  However, I believe I had Windows Default Audio set to 48k 24bit at that point.  Hence, no issues. ?
     
    Maybe all these issues started when I changed Windows Audio to 44.1 to accommodate Band in a Box. It was a while ago that I did this. (and I've been having issues for a while).   I didn't consider the Virtual Audio Cable as the problem because I never used it with Sonar.   It was enabled long ago on my system, ('set it, and forget it') ,  ('out of sight, out of mind').
    Although I wasn't using it in Sonar, having it enabled on my system could, maybe have been causing these mind-boggling issues?   I'm hoping so. 
     
    I will keep testing and recording to see if this is the problem.  Many thanks to all who have made suggestions and taken the time to help!!  I will update this to confirm, (hopefully) that this was the issue.  Does this make sense?
    Thanks,
    Bob E
      
    post edited by Bob E - 2017/10/08 09:59:31

    Bob
     
    Sonar Platinum,  Windows 10,  Processor    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz, 4001 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s)
    32 GB of Ram, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970, Motu Ultralight Firewire 1394 interface, Texas Instruments 1394 OHCI compliant Host Controller, M-Audio Axiom 25 midi interface
    #30
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