neiby
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Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
I'm cutting up an a capella song into clips with each word getting its own clip. I've run into something weird a few times and I don't know if it's user error on my part or if it's a bug. It seems like a bug, but I'm not sure because I'm still learning the interface.
What I'm doing is splitting the clip, then grabbing the left-most new clip and sliding it around to where I want it on the time line, and I proceed word by word to get the new clips into the time I want. But two or three times, when I've moved the first new clip, the second clip completely disappears! I ctrl+z to undo, then try it again and it works just fine. If it is a bug, it is an occasional thing. If it's user error, I'm not sure what I'm doing differently each time. It seems to be pretty simple: split, select first new clip, grab it and move it to the left a bit.
Any thoughts?
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JamesGallant
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 11:44:03
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The clip is gone or the data is gone in the clip.. i find i accidently work with a clips fade while another is selected and causes the fade to happen on the selected which fades the whole clip.. weird.. but its my mistake i think, maybe thats whats happening to you or similar.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 11:44:15
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Next time it happens just try clicking on the scroll bar and see if the clip re-appears. There is a bug that makes notes 'disappear' in the PRV even though in reality they are still there, just not being drawn.
It may be something similar happening to you. I can't say I've noticed anything like you are describing but I tend to use cut & paste rather than drag & drop.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 11:44:58
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JamesGallant
The clip is gone or the data is gone in the clip.. i find i accidently work with a clips fade while another is selected and causes the fade to happen on the selected which fades the whole clip.. weird.. but its my mistake i think, maybe thats whats happening to you or similar.
The whole clip disappears. The clip I move remains, but the second new clip (after the split) just disappears.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 11:45:59
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FastBikerBoy
Next time it happens just try clicking on the scroll bar and see if the clip re-appears. There is a bug that makes notes 'disappear' in the PRV even though in reality they are still there, just not being drawn.
It may be something similar happening to you. I can't say I've noticed anything like you are describing but I tend to use cut & paste rather than drag & drop.
Good idea. It may just be a display bug. Another interesting trick would be to hit play and see if the second clip plays even though it's not showing up on the track.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:14:36
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Tried to duplicate but couldn't.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:17:42
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I'll see if I can figure out what combination of steps did it. It's only done it 2 or 3 times, so perhaps I hit a key that I didn't realize or something. I'm trying to solve a different user error problem at the moment before I continue. I'm sure there is a better tool for it, like Audiosnap. I have a syllable that is long and drawn out that I need to shorten. I'm trying to cut it in the middle and move the ends together, but that leaves a pop in the middle that I haven't figured out how to solve using crossfades.
Is there a way to shorten the length while keeping the pitch the same? I've never used Audiosnap. Is that the sort of thing I could use it for?
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:33:44
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Actually, if I just have a section of three words that I need to shorten, I think I'll make that a separate clip and then use Process > Length to shorten it to three beats. It's about 4.5 beats at my current tempo. This should work if I can figure out the right process percentage.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:34:56
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neiby
I'll see if I can figure out what combination of steps did it. It's only done it 2 or 3 times, so perhaps I hit a key that I didn't realize or something. I'm trying to solve a different user error problem at the moment before I continue. I'm sure there is a better tool for it, like Audiosnap. I have a syllable that is long and drawn out that I need to shorten. I'm trying to cut it in the middle and move the ends together, but that leaves a pop in the middle that I haven't figured out how to solve using crossfades.
Is there a way to shorten the length while keeping the pitch the same? I've never used Audiosnap. Is that the sort of thing I could use it for?
V-Vocal will do that. Load it up and use the Time tool that's designed for stretching/shortening/moving vocal phrases. It takes a little experimenting to get used to using it but once you 'get' it it's quite easy to do. Word of warning though. Many users have stability issues with V-Vocal. It works great for me but it is known to cause crashes for some. Might be an idea to save before using it.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:37:26
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I've never used V-Vocal. Every time I've tried to use it, I get frustrated because I don't know how. lol Then I give up and move on to something else.
For this, I just now mostly successfully used Process>Length to get it down to the right length, but it's a three-word clip and the second words start at the wrong places. I was tempted to use Audiosnap to move the second and third words around. Maybe now is a good time to learn how to use V-Vocal instead!
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:40:18
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Yeah, so V-Vocal was pretty cool until it locked up Sonar. :( I'm glad you warned me to expect it!
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:49:33
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Hmm... V-Vocal is working, but it's really messing with the audio quality bad. It makes that little clip sound like total crap. I had better luck quality-wise using Process>Length, but that's a bit more difficult to get just right. It's easy to move it around in V-Vocal. Hmmm....
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 12:54:28
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Yep, I just did an A/B test. The audio quality is *MUCH* better using Process>Length than what I get with V-Vocal. Isn't that weird? Shouldn't V-Vocal do a better job since that's sort of what it's job is? I found that Process>Length didn't really affect the quality of the audio much at all, and it beats the hell out of the method I was trying earlier this morning!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:02:53
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I can't say I've ever had much quality issues with V-Vocal. I get the odd artefact if I'm trying something really extreme.
Is it still locking up? There is a fix of sorts that works for some people with V-Vocal, myself included. It involves making sure the the cronus.dll is included in the VST scan. i.e. not excluded.
The time stretching takes a little getting used to to use accurately. I set a couple of "stop" markers first either side of where I want to work, this limits how much of the clip moves. Then I mark either side of where I want to adjust and move accordingly.
I use it all the time for lining up slight timing issues between main & harmony vocals. I've never had a crash with it since I used the cronus 'fix' so I just use it on full length tracks. Some that do get crashes find it better though if they work on small clips and bounce it down as soon as they've finished. That may help you a bit.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:05:32
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BTW another thing that it's really good for is using the dynamics window for removing those breath noises and other things that get picked up between phrases, such as my cat meowing for food.  Mark the sections you want to change and then drag the red line accordingly. It can also be used for making passages louder or quieter.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:07:48
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It only crashed once. I wonder if the fact that this track has vocal already mixed in with a synthy sort of vocoder effect is causing the distortion I'm hearing.. It's an Imogen Heap song (Hide and Seek). I'm trying to learn Sonar better while using this is a test project. I want to try my hand at creating a techno version of it ala Tiesto, but I need to fit all of the vocal lines around a 136 bpm tempo. That means I'll need to slip and slide certain phrases around quite a bit, and some phrases will need to be shortened.
For example, the very first words are "Where are we?", and those drag out way too long. I used Process>Length to shorten it to 73% of original. That worked perfectly. When I used V-Vocal to do exactly the same thing, there was quite a lot of loss in the sound. I wonder if it's because it expected it to be a true vocal sound and that's not really what's on the track.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:08:47
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Now I'm on the second phrase "What the hell...". I used Process>length to shorten it to 90% of original. Now I'm trying to use Audiosnap to shift the time a bit. EDIT: This worked perfectly. The process>length got it to the right tempo, then I just used Audiosnap to drag the word "hell" just a tiny bit earlier and it sounds great!
post edited by neiby - 2011/01/30 13:10:36
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:13:53
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Yeah V-vocal only works properly on monophonic sounds so that may be the problem. At least you've found a method that works.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:15:53
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Yep, this one works. And in hindsight, I should have used the polyphonic setting in Process>Length. I should do it again and see if it sounds better. I can still here a tiny bit of distortion in this, but it's not bad.
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neiby
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Re:Minor X1 Move bug or user error?
2011/01/30 13:21:50
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I have to say that using polyphonic mode in Process>Length and then using Radius Mix (Advanced) as the render mode in Audiosnap is working out quite well. I'm figuring out how to use it and I like it, so far.
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