Mix feedback please? :)

The mix sounds very good.  Great vocals!  I like how you have the Kick eq'd and compressed.   And the power guitar sounds really good.  After the guitar solo, when the vocals come in again, the lead guitar moves from the center and then goes very low in volume, while doing some intense ripping in the background.  I'm not sure about that - it didn't feel right to me.  All in all a great production!

@guitartreck: I agree on the end of the guitar solo, but the guitarist kept playing and when I cut it earlier it didn't sound right  to me either. so I wasn't really sure what to do with it.  so I left it in, moved it to the side and reduced the level. sometimes i like it and others i don't. LOL!

@james: we did do gang vocals as backups but they didn't sound right, so I think we are gonna revisit it next weekend. but I agree.  what would make the snare huge and sparkle. I am new to the mixing thing. add some low and hi or reduce the mid freq in the snare? or reverb?

Liked the tune and as James said: the dude can sing. Nice job

Regards,

@Lynn,  Short answer - maybe

Long answer - The recording project Blakkmire, is with a couple of friends of mine that I was in a band with 22 years ago. We all played around town for many years. The guitar player still plays in a couple of groups one to earn extra money. I played in cover bands up til about a year ago.  But you know how it is, when we were young we were playing as much as possible, now...not so much.  We are working on this project to produce and "album".  we have many more songs. Once it is all completed we will play some live shows, but not frequently. Depends on the gig.

Awesome, dude. Sounds good to me but because I'm a guitar dork I'll comment on those.

The rhythm guits have a touch of the squishy squashy sound (not much but I noticed it) and they sound a little more "small room" than the vocals (which sound great BTW).

To try to get rid of the squishy squashies I'd try an extremely narrow notch filter to sweep until I found it and bring it down. Maybe not a full cut though.

To get rid of the "small room" sound I'd try cloning the guit tracks (if you haven't already if you have just use the clones) then nudging them ever so slightly to cause some delay OR send them to a delay bus. I just think they sound like they are in a different room than the singer and the drums. If you used a delay/reverb bus on the vocals try inserting sends that route to that and blending them in just a little.

The lead guit sounds great but it's not cutting quite as well as the rhythms so I'd try a boost sweep in the high-mid range to find the "bite" just to give it a bit more cut to match it with the rhythm guits a bit better and maybe a slight high shelf for some sparkle.

The bass seems a little buried but that might be my speakers as well. Still though if you can clone the DI track and give it a low shelf boost so it's flat but bottomy then blend it in it would really round out that bass part.

After all that I'd maybe try an IR reverb bus for everything to give it an overall live sound like you were watching them play it in a small club. This is screaming for a live sound. This might put some of the reverb/delay that's already in the track over the top though so just blend very carefully or adjust the delay/reverb that's already on the track.

As you know I am not a pro but you seem to have fun with this stuff and this is a great track so I figured I'd toss out some things to try.

Seriously man this sounds awesome. Just needs a bit of glue and space to my ears. Speaking of glue if you have the PC2A that might be a nice comp to throw in on the Master and maybe the Console Emu to push it into a nice warm vintage metal vibe.

Seriously this got me excited. I'll shut up now. Good job. ;-)

Sounds fine, reminiscent of the sounds my Wookiee ears heard at many a collage gig.

Thanks fro sharing.

@beep - there are few folks like yourself that I was hoping would hear it and give some feedback. I wasn't sure if i would come off like a total dork by asking folks to give it a listen.  LOL!!!

I'm not into this sort of music at all to be honest, but what i heard here sounded pretty good as far as the mix was concerned.

You sound very accomplished at what you do and the vocals are perfect for this genre.

LOL Beeps, would you believe my thoughts are totally opposite from yours? Hahahaha!

Personally, the only things I would change are the end of the guitar solo tailing on and on and the drum kit could use a little more panning. Hats are a bit too tight, toms don't seem to pan at all, crashes have a bit of a weird tone but it could be the Youtube encoding. Next time, try to post a high quality mp3 so we can really hear the song in all it's glory.
 
That solo just sounded bad when it was over top of the vocals. So I would have been out when the singer came back in and if it didn't sound right, whoever solo'd needs to learn how to end his phrasing correctly so things mesh together. Solo was cool, arrangement of the solo needs work.

This to me could come right off an early Queensryche/Maiden/Priest type production as is. I don't like the snare sound, but for what it is, it works. Could you add more verb to it and make it bigger? Yeah, but then you're really going for 80's. A little gated verb may have been nice, but I definitely wouldn't have over-done it. I think this is a really good job dude...nothing lept out to me as "wrong". I could give you 100 subjective opinions, but there's no reason to. I liked and accepted it just as it was delivered other than how the solo came out and a little more drum panning.

That said, just for Beepster's head I want to address some of the things he mentioned and why *I* would not go those routes. Not picking on you Beeps...just trying to help you and explain why it may not be a good call and why sometimes you may want to be careful when giving advice. You mean well, but if someone really reads into what you're saying here, some of this stuff could really mess up a mix that in my opinion, is already done pretty well, ya know?

Squishy squashy? What the heck is that? LOL!! You definitely need to explain that a bit better bro before you tell someone to start notching things out. I've been in this field a long time...I never heard that one before nor do I know why notching would help with an already cool sound? Whatever the case, I liked these rhythms a lot. Reminded me a bit of Tesla type guitar tones as well as some of the other cool 80's metal bands I dug. Not sure why he'd need to notch anything or clone the tracks. He has two guitars played independently in stereo...there is no need for cloning or a "HAAS/delaying cloned tracks" effect in my opinion.

This particular song doesn't need guitar layering or modern production layering really. It would kill the entire vibe and sound like he made big guitars for the sake of big guitars....which in turn would be bigger than the rest of the instrumentation. You have to keep instrument sound size in mind with this stuff. Everything sounds like it belongs in the same band on the same song. Nothing is bigger than anything else in my opinion. This is a good sign and a great way to go into a mix in my opinion.

Lead guitar cutting: It doesn't work that way on most 80's productions or any other production to be honest other than most of the bedroom guys. Your rhythm guitars are supposed to cut, your lead is supposed to be warm so the high notes do not pierce the listeners ears. If he matched the cut on the rhythms, the lead sound here would be harsh and abrasive and would blend in with the rhythms.

I feel it is always the better choice to warm up the lead guitars at ALL times because they play high notes that could get on your nerves. When a solo section comes in, you can back the rhythm guitars down a bit so the lead can breathe. When the solo is over, you can increase the rhythms so it doesn't sound like something dropped out. But to me, the last thing you want is a piercing lead guitar. The treble on this was just right to my ears. I just don't like how the solo ended and kept on going on and on. Bad ending choice to my ears...but the tone was definitely acceptable.

Bass was loud and clear to me. Didn't walk on the kick drum at all and had it's own space cut out. This is 80% of most peoples mix battles. He nailed it perfectly to my ears and monitors.

IR's on the whole mix? Well...you could, but it's not something *I* would do. You gotta be super careful placing a full mix in a room Beeps. It can be the death of you as the tailing can be a nightmare. Verb reacts terrible on kick drums, cymbals and bass. In my opinion, if it's not live, don't make it try to sound live and stay away from that stuff, but that's just me. If it's screaming for live sound, record it live, don't try to create a live atmosphere. It's harder than you think. :)

I thought it had a nice glue to my ears. The Console Emulation won't warm it up, it will drive it dirty and that to me, would be the worst thing he could do at this point. Those CE's serve no purpose to my ears and I won't be caught dead using them ever again. I've worked on several consoles my entire life. None of them ever drove the mixes to "dirt" like these things we have. "Warm" is not remotely the term to use for them in my opinion. "Driven sort of like an Aural exciter" is more how I'd describe them...which I don't really need in any of my mixes. But if that works for you...coolnees. :)

Anyway, not picking on you dude even though it may appear I am. I'm just trying to tell you why you may not want to use those ideas. Are they good ideas? Yeah, but you have to consider the song and what's going on. When something sounds good, sometimes less is more. I don't think Trace did a lot here and to me, he didn't need to. He delivered a good, raw rock piece that hits hard and would lose impact in my opinion if it were to be over produced. These particular instrument sounds are the type you grab and produce. However, they can wind up losing impact instead of gaining impact. If you want more impact, sometimes it's best you choose sounds that reflect impact. They are easier to work with than trying to make sounds that lack impact, have more impact, understand?

These are primo 80's type sounds right out of the box. You add excessive verb, it becomes arena rock and well, as much as I liked some of the musicianship in that stuff, the mixes were pretty horrendous and loaded with reverb. I liked this approach he used because of what it DIDN'T have, ya know? It sounded like a band jamming in the studio having fun where none of the instrumentation was fighting with anything else. This to me, is the other 20% of the mixing realm. Dude nailed it to me. Anyway, just wanted to explain things to you in hopes you might see WHY I would be the opposite from you. Knowing you, if I would have just left the "would you believe my thoughts are totally opposite of yours Beeps?" you would have asked me to elaborate, right? LOL! So I figured I would. Again bro, not a bash on you, just me sharing an opinion.

Trace, nice job on this!

-Danny

LOL - I too had to chuckle at Squishy Squashy. I have no idea what that means, but I do like the way it rolls off the tongue. Like Blipp, I am not a big fan of this genre of music at all (some bands I like), but find the performance impressive, and like Danny I find nothing wrong with the mix. I would not say Deo, or Queensreich, but the vocals sure do sound like Klaus Meine (Scorpions - a band I do like).

Heheh. I'll definitely defer to your experience, Danny and Tracey you should totally take his word over mine. You both know I'm still schlepping around all this stuff and that was all meant more just to give you some things to play around with... not necessarily use on the final cut.

Anyway, Danny I think we may, perhaps, just maybe be having a differing of personal taste on most of that more than anything. Actually the fact that you understood where I was trying to go with all that gives me a little satisfaction knowing that at least it made SENSE to a dude like you as opposed to just being a bunch of incoherent gibberish. It means I might I might actually be learning something other than just randomly twisting dials. lol

But yeah... I do actually like more of that live feel which is probably where we're going astray. Not huge stadium type live but cozy little club live. I'm also on my Labtecs which are just teeny little computer speakers but as I think I've told you I do most of my pleasure listening and vid watching on so I'm really used to how they respond to things... but they are what they are. Crummy computer speakers. They do tell me though when things are awry. For example... if I listen to one of MY old mixes on them I can tell there is stuff very wrong even if it sounds great on my good monitors. When I listen to one of YOUR mixes on them everything is right where it should be. Yanno? I just find them to be a good gauge for stuff like that. That's why I mentioned the bass. It just wasn't really there and I figured the clone/low shelf trick might help. Maybe not.

All the other stuff I said was meant to be ULTRA subtle and I guess I should have put more emphasis on that. Just very light verb or delay to give a bit more of a live space sound... but yes, that is definitely a taste thing on my part. If I can make something sound more live I'll totally do it. That said I actually very much dislike excessive and especially trebly reverb sound like used to get layered on tons of stuff in the 80's. Just not my thing so subtle subtle subtle. Like not even really audible. Just a little breathing room.

As far as the "squishy squashies" that kind of made me laugh. I've had someone else on here ask me WTH I meant by that (might have even been you actually) but I mean that guitar mid range "fizz" that happens to a lot of distorted tracks.  I think I picked up the "squashy" thing from one of the Anderton vids where he's talking about amp sims... but I mean "fizz" I guess. I just think that effect sounds " squishy squashy" so that's what I call it. There really is extremely little on this if it's even there at all (and maybe I'm just hallucinating) but I can hear something in there that could use some taming. You're right though (of course you're right... you're Danny!)... a full notch would probably not do what I'm imagining it would but some kind of high mid attenuation or SOMETHING might be good. I am however kind of weird about my distorted guitars so again could be just a taste thing.

So not arguing or nothing just figured you were kind enough to take the time to explain (and I do appreciate it as always) so I thought I'd attempt to give some of my reasoning. It's probably totally whack but those are definitely things I would try. If they flopped well at least the effort was made. Cheers, man.

Tracey, this really is a killer track as is. Like I said I thought maybe you'd have some fun messing around with some of that stuff but do it for fun. If something sounds good, cool. If not... well it's always neat to try new stuff, eh? Cheers.

Beepster


Heheh. I'll definitely defer to your experience, Danny and Tracey you should totally take his word over mine. You both know I'm still schlepping around all this stuff and that was all meant more just to give you some things to play around with... not necessarily use on the final cut.

Anyway, Danny I think we may, perhaps, just maybe be having a differing of personal taste on most of that more than anything. Actually the fact that you understood where I was trying to go with all that gives me a little satisfaction knowing that at least it made SENSE to a dude like you as opposed to just being a bunch of incoherent gibberish. It means I might I might actually be learning something other than just randomly twisting dials. lol

But yeah... I do actually like more of that live feel which is probably where we're going astray. Not huge stadium type live but cozy little club live. I'm also on my Labtecs which are just teeny little computer speakers but as I think I've told you I do most of my pleasure listening and vid watching on so I'm really used to how they respond to things... but they are what they are. Crummy computer speakers. They do tell me though when things are awry. For example... if I listen to one of MY old mixes on them I can tell there is stuff very wrong even if it sounds great on my good monitors. When I listen to one of YOUR mixes on them everything is right where it should be. Yanno? I just find them to be a good gauge for stuff like that. That's why I mentioned the bass. It just wasn't really there and I figured the clone/low shelf trick might help. Maybe not.

All the other stuff I said was meant to be ULTRA subtle and I guess I should have put more emphasis on that. Just very light verb or delay to give a bit more of a live space sound... but yes, that is definitely a taste thing on my part. If I can make something sound more live I'll totally do it. That said I actually very much dislike excessive and especially trebly reverb sound like used to get layered on tons of stuff in the 80's. Just not my thing so subtle subtle subtle. Like not even really audible. Just a little breathing room.

As far as the "squishy squashies" that kind of made me laugh. I've had someone else on here ask me WTH I meant by that (might have even been you actually) but I mean that guitar mid range "fizz" that happens to a lot of distorted tracks.  I think I picked up the "squashy" thing from one of the Anderton vids where he's talking about amp sims... but I mean "fizz" I guess. I just think that effect sounds " squishy squashy" so that's what I call it. There really is extremely little on this if it's even there at all (and maybe I'm just hallucinating) but I can hear something in there that could use some taming. You're right though (of course you're right... you're Danny!)... a full notch would probably not do what I'm imagining it would but some kind of high mid attenuation or SOMETHING might be good. I am however kind of weird about my distorted guitars so again could be just a taste thing.

So not arguing or nothing just figured you were kind enough to take the time to explain (and I do appreciate it as always) so I thought I'd attempt to give some of my reasoning. It's probably totally whack but those are definitely things I would try. If they flopped well at least the effort was made. Cheers, man.

Tracey, this really is a killer track as is. Like I said I thought maybe you'd have some fun messing around with some of that stuff but do it for fun. If something sounds good, cool. If not... well it's always neat to try new stuff, eh? Cheers.

Hahaha nah man, no reason to take my word over yours. Here's the thing Beeps...and this may help ya. Do what you feel, say what you feel, tell it like you've lived it, explain it step by step, but try NOT to produce someone else's music unless they ask, know what I mean? I try not to give subjective advice these days because, well, when something is good and there are no blatant errors going on, it's like looking at a piece of art. Most times we won't say "why did that dope use red instead of green!?"
 
I don't hear what you're hearing on the guitars. I absolutely love that rhythm tone and wouldn't change a thing. It's like, gainy yet it doesn't trip over itself and sound like a run-on-sentence when guys use too much gain. It's almost got a George Lynch type of sound, set in a smaller sound size, the more I listen to it. Guitar tones are weird. I actually have a difficult time telling someone about their tone unless it just leaps out at me as sounding obnoxiously horrible. It's a preference thing and people put loads of hours into the tones they use most times. I try to always tread softly whenever I can. :)
 
On the live room stuff, I think it was good Trace didn't go this route this time so we could hear what he was really getting. Yeah, you can always liven something up a bit if need be, but I think the core of his mix is there now...so he has room to grow with a little roominess if need be. I wouldn't do it though because I like the impact this has being a bit more dry...but that's just me. :)
 
I'm glad I didn't upset you. I didn't want you to think I was picking on you or bashing you because of your opinion. Then I thought to myself, we know each other good enough to where you know I'd never do anything to insult you or bash on you...so I felt safe. :) Yeah, you weren't talking gibberish other than that squishy squashy thing. LOL! I just love that rhythm tone....I don't hear what you hear on my end though in all 3 sets of monitors. I keep trying to listen for it but I'm failing over here. LOL!
 
sharkE: (gotta never forget that e, dude nearly ate poor Jeff Evans for that lol) I'm hearing that low mid fullness as well...just a little too much. Right at about 350-380 hz or so? Yeah, just a little too much on this end too. Not enough to bother me, but I hear what you hear and heard it before....it just didn't bother me enough to say anything. See how text can screw with us? I heard it, knew it was there, but really didn't think about it until I read your post...listened again and said "yep, that's what I hear also." Definitely not your cans...that's good ears man. :)
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi


sharkE: (gotta never forget that e, dude nearly ate poor Jeff Evans for that lol) I'm hearing that low mid fullness as well...just a little too much. Right at about 350-380 hz or so? Yeah, just a little too much on this end too. Not enough to bother me, but I hear what you hear and heard it before....it just didn't bother me enough to say anything. See how text can screw with us? I heard it, knew it was there, but really didn't think about it until I read your post...listened again and said "yep, that's what I hear also." Definitely not your cans...that's good ears man. :)
 
-Danny

Ha...Don't even know why that E is there...well I do actually, a nutjob customer called me a "shark" one time and I found it amusing, so it leaped into my head when trying to come up with a random user name in another forum, and shark was taken, so I figured to hell with it and add the E. As for the 350-380Hz thing, I think my ears are just very sensitive to that frequency. It gives me a feeling of fullness in the ears which I find uncomfortable when overdone. Not in this mix, because it was ever so slightly present and certainly not enough to spoil my enjoyment of the song at all, but the frequency is one that seems to dominate my hearing range. It fills my ears when I hear musicians performing in the subway and if it's too prominent it can actually make my eyes water 

Goofball question: when panning the drums / toms, that center tom, where does it go? I have tried 20% left or 20% right etc. I feel like it gets lost when it gets close to center. What do you guys do?

Strong vocal and great band. Song sounds great.