Mixdown fadeout

What's the best way to create an end-of-song fade-out in Sonar? Simple enough question but I'm not too savy on production techniques yet. And I've found next to nothing in the help files.
 
In the real world you control fade-ins and outs with the "mains" fader. Why can't this be done in Sonar? It seems sinple enough to be able to automate the mains but I don't see a way to do it.
 
I've tried the 'volume envelope on every channel' bit. --- Too tedious.
I've tried the 'send each channel to a bus, then each bus to a master bus with a volume envelope. Then send the master to the mains' bit. --- This really cuts down the output signals of each channel making it sound muddy. When I bring up the levels to regain the sound loss the meters peg out.
 
Thanks for any help,
Steve

Thanks. I'm already doing this as stated in paragraph 3, line 2 above. So if this is the only way to do it I'll have to live with it I guess.
 
From a mixer point of view, using a 'master' bus kind of negates the mains making it almost pointless to even have them at all since they really don't do anything but separate the L/R channels.
 
It would be cool if they could be automated.
 
Steve

soens


Thanks. I'm already doing this as stated in paragraph 3, line 2 above. So if this is the only way to do it I'll have to live with it I guess.
 
From a mixer point of view, using a 'master' bus kind of negates the mains making it almost pointless to even have them at all since they really don't do anything but separate the L/R channels.
 
It would be cool if they could be automated.
 
Steve

Honestly, I couldn't follow what you were saying up there so I just cut to the chase.

with regards to

"From a mixer point of view, using a 'master' bus kind of negates the mains making it almost pointless to even have them at all since they really don't do anything but separate the L/R channels."

That's exactly what it does... but what you are not accounting for is that these have never been more that purty pictures in the silly console view. Those pictures are metaphors for your sound cards actual gain stage... and you can't stuff anything into that stage using SONAR so you might as well ignore them.

If you adjust your main outs you are actually adjusting your actual sound card by proxy... some devices will respond on the hardware and you can see the levels track on the device as you adjust them within SONAR.

The standard advice is to use your sound cards driver or hardware knobs to set that stage at optimal playback level and then never touch it again... or until you want to.

That is why I suggest the Master bus which you may use as SONAR's actual master output. Then you have all the power of SONAR at your disposal.

If you work in Track view you will NEVER see the main outs... they are on your sound card.

I set up a master bus as soon as I start a project and never touch my main outs. I have them calibrated to my playback system.

The console view is made to make people feel like they have a mixer... in this day and age I believe it anachronistic to use a console view in a DAW... but many people still prefer to do so. I think the silly, useless, main output picture that you see in the Console view is just one example of how inefficient it is to cling to a not so old metaphor. Recall that the channel strip format console is only about 40, maybe 45 years old out in the *real* OTB world.

Anyways,

Have Fun!!!

best regards,
mike

That might be it. I have an EFECTS bus and a DRY bus. Each track is sent to one of these buses. The EFFECTS and DRY buses are routed to a MASTER bus with a volume envelope fade-out.
 
Apparently some of the tracks sent to the DRY bus also had a send to the EFFECTS bus. Is this what you mean? I guess the DRY bus is redundant and can be omitted and just send those tracks right to the MASTER bus.
 
Like I said, I'm not too savy on this stuff yet.
 
Thanks,
Steve

Tracks can be sent directly to the "master bus" or routed to auxillary buses w/ effects.  These buses are sent to the master, too.  The master should be the only bus sent to a card output (except if you are using external hardware effects - but that is a different subject).  What you hear in from the card output is what you get.  Now when you do automation on the master bus everything gets affected by the same amount.  I'm not sure why your mix would change soundwise w/ your current routing.

I listen to each track and put an fade out on it.  Sometimes there is amp noise etc. and leaving or fading it makes the song end more naturally.  It shouldn't be too time consuming, unless you have 80 tracks going.  I don't usually fade out the master, but, if necessary, do that during mastering.

@

To the OP, what Limiter, and Multiband compressor are you using? Make sure there is NO PROCESSING after your Master Bus. If your Master Bus is feeding into any other bus that may have a Multiband Compressor, you're going to get muddying of your sound when you turn that fader down, because your levels aren't reaching the thresholds that the Multiband is requiring to kick in. I've had this happen to me before using Ozone 3. I had a fairly low-volume string part at the beginning of a song, and it would seem to jump back and forth in volume and clarity. I could not figure what was going on, until I started messing around with the Multiband Compressor Thresholds. Just something you may want to check. Hope this helps.....