Mixing Down: what's working? How do you do it?

Okay, I can start us off, I need to give my ears a break anyways.

* - Bussing- love it. I use it for almost all my effects and compression when mixing, and for eqing groups of things sometimes as well. I like to leave most of my recorded tracks dry with the exception of eq, and then blend them in with 100% wet mix from busses. Ive typically been using no less that 8 busses for a mix, depending.
* - Control Surface vs Mouse- All mouse. I cant afford a control surface and am not sure if I really need one. Im pretty comfortable with just a mouse and key board.
* - Monitoring (technique and equipment)- I monitor on M-Audio BX8 powered speakers. Just stereo, no surround . I use Sonar 3.1.1 currently, with a Motu 2408 MK3 as my interface. Generally I monitor at a mid to low level and crank it up every once in a while to get that perspective.
* - Effects (type and settings)- anything and everything, when its needed. I like to use a light choursing on cymbals/drum over heads and on vocals some times. I use a shot delay on vocals, snares, and some times guitars ( a new trick ive been playing with). Reverb on vocals, snare drum and accoustic guitars as well as guitar solos.
* - Spectrum Analysis- not very often, i know my room and what Im hearing, i get messed up trying to "hear with my eyes".
* - RMS measurement- I use peak + RMS metering and have become a big fan of the PSP vintage meter set so 0=-20 db (thanks Jonas)
* - All-Dgital or Digital/Analog -all digital once its in the computer
* - Sonar views (ie mixing in Track View vs Console) I get a rough mix with the console view and add most of my effects and busses there, then fine tune and edit in the track view.
* - using Compression (per track vs bus)- I like to compress while recording, before the audio hits the converters. If I need compression during mixing I usually add one on a buss and route the track I want to compress to the buss. I believe this is called "New York" style compression. For vocals, kick drum and bass, I might use a per track comp, depending on what needs comping.

Well thats the basics on how I do things. BTW, SteveJL, great idea for a thread, I hope it works out!

~Ryan

* Sonic Imagery: Whatever takes the song past notes, lyrics, and performance and turns it into an emotional experience. Each song is different, of course, but this is the general perspective that gets me started. But this goes well beyond mixing, it starts with planning, arranging, tracking, and then mixing and anything that follows. This is the foundation that everything else hinges on. Miss this one, and it doesn't matter what you do with any of the rest of it, IMO.

* Software; Sonar 4PE and Adobe Audition. I've been using Audition for mastering-type tweaks, EQ, compression, that sort of thing, but I'm finding the control of the onboard EQ with 4PE to be a lot more controllable and the Kjaerhus plugs are quite noticeably better than the compression and limiting available in Audition, so Audition doesn't get a lot of mileage much anymore.

I've also been bouncing back and forth w/ Sonar and Audition as to who is burning MP3, but intend to start using the LAME encoder because at this point I'm not fully happy with either of the other options.

* Bussing: In my mind, bussing is the keys to the mixing kingdom. I'm bussing to control volume levels on groups, to add effects to groups, to EQ groups (particularly BGVs)... What I haven't been doing a using a lot of sends, and I've just recently realized that I could get a lot more mileage from bussing via sends.

* Control Surface: ShuttlePro v2. Other than the jog/shuttle, it's next to useless. But then again, all I wanted was the jog/shuttle. My personal goal at all times is to use the mouse as little as possible.

* Monitoring: Behringer 3282 mixer driving Event 20/20p's primarily plus the occasional car stereo, crappy laptop speakers, home stereo, that kind of thing. I'd like to get some NS10s in here and some really, really wacked out computer speakers that I could switch to interactively, but that hasn't floated to the top of the budget yet. Love the 20/20s and this mixer is just about perfect for what I'm doing. As to technique, I don't do anything out of the ordinary (usually): Rough mix, then solo each track, find it's relative placement in the mix (EQ-wise), then pan it where it belongs. Tweak and adjust to achieve the sonic objective, then add effects to flavor. That's a gross generalization of course, but then again it's just basics.

* Effects: As little as possible. My primary outboard is an Alesis MidiVerb 4, which has a couple of great room reverbs that sound cleaner than any software reverbs I've used, though the Pantheon properly tweaked is definitely a contender. Thanks to K-v-R my software effects list is humongous, but I'm not using much of them at any given time. Of course, a song here or there will require that one special thing that -- at that time -- I'm glad I have something specifically for it, but generally speaking the less effects the better. Again, though, it's all a matter of achieving that all-important sonic vision.

* Spectrum Analysis: I'll throw a spectrum analyzer up every now and again on a listenback of a main mix just to see if there's anything really egregious going on, particularly in the mids. After a few hours my ears start to lose a bit of sensitivity to certain frequencies, so it's cheap insurance to keep from sending out a roughie that's, well, embarrassing.

* Metering: Still learning. I've been trying to incorporate the PSP vintage meter, but so far the normal metering has been a lot more responsive. Thanks to Jonas, my whole approach to metering is under renovation. (That's a good thing, btw.)

* Digital vs. D/A: Everything's recorded via Sonar, no ADATs or external media. I do use the MidiVerb outboard and I have an equalizer and BBE 462 outboard between the mixer and monitors to adjust the monitors for the room. Okay, the eq is for the room, the BBE is just for fun and impressing prospects.

* Sonar Views: For mixing, the track view, almost universally. I've played in the console view, and it looks cool for clients, but generally speaking I like the preview picture in the track view a lot better, being able to sight upcoming markers, etc. Just a lot more information in that view.

* Compression: Little as possible. I'll compress where it's needed, and only as much as gently necessary. And currently I'm in love with the Kjaerhus Classic Compressor so despite having a half dozen other options, this one gets my vote nearly every time. The Classic Limiter on the final mix is also a nice touch. I do periodically use a light 3630 as an insert on main vocals and bass occasionally, but hopefully when my bass gets back from the shop (complete electronics renovation) I won't need the extra punch from the compressor.

I have this theory that says "there's a time and a place for everything, and it's not always and it's not never". It's applicable to a lot of areas of life, but particularly mixing. There's a time and a place for every effect in the sandbox, there's a time and a place for none of it, and every shade in between. The bottom line is understanding the sonic vision and then building the end product around that.

Thanks Blinddog and ...wicked.....nice writeups. They both show me things I can improve on.

Actually Geoff, I would think it best that we all put down exactly what we're doing....that way anyone looking through it to learn stuff will start to see consistencies. Doubtless, many of us will have our own ways, but there will likely be many similarities.

Thanks for responding.

Excellent suggestion.

I don't have much to sample, but you can check out WillowSongs which has brief samples of a project I finished six months ago. I'm working on getting more of the more recent stuff on SoundClick but right now there's only a couple of songs up there.

Please also consider that at the moment I'm still recording 20 bit -- well, 16 on what you hear here. 24-bit is "in the mail" as they say.

Here’s my process concerning mixing…

#1 I struggle with the tension between there are no formulas – to creating presets that are a good starting point based on the content. I guess this is the Art/Science part of what we do.

I produce classical music for radio and commercial CD as a primary process, but I do about six CD’s a year in the acoustic category. So I have created sonic benchmark metrics in each category of my mixes and the mixes of CD’s I respect. Simply, I have a starting point to work in small increments from, rather than starting from scratch in every project/song.

Bussing – I typically place some content (eg percussion, backup vocals) in a buss architecture for consistency and manageability.

Surface/Mouse – I use a Yamaha O1/X I find for the multi-track pop stuff it’s more natural (my age showing here) but the <8 track classical stuff works fine with the mouse, as it is much more linear in level.

Monitor – I mainly use Mackie’s as most of the studios I work with have standardized on these, I start with them, move to Boston Acoustic BA-40’s (consumer bookshelf), then listen in a separate green room with Acoustat Panels and Spica’s – My goal is to measure the Image, and dynamics – I practically ignore frequency response as, I am pretty set in my EQ by this point.

Spectrum Analysis – I don’t really concern myself with this until the mastering phase.

RMS measurement – I am always looking at Peak to Average even during tracking

All Digital, All the Time – Time is $$ - at 96Khz 24 Bit - I don’t care who is snobby about the sound anymore. Most people who seem to criticize all digital stuff speak in clichés and simplify a complex issue.

Sonar Views – I always use Dual Monitors – gota do that!

Compression – I do like the Sonitus (BTW just how is that pronounced!) multibands on some tracks. I feel I can classically dial the comp to realistic level.

Finally: Mix in the Dark with all visual monitors turned off – Deny your eyes and start enabling your ears!! I watch people staring at faders and meters during a mix as if there is some important information there – at this point you need to turn off the lights!! Yes, those indicators are critical but at this point let the ears lead.

Off my soapbox now…

-D

I think it also helps to know what type/style of recordings people are doing. I do my own projects - mostly a Jazz/Rock/Blues sort of thing with 2 guitars, bass, drums, one or two vocal tracks, and a little keyboard's. I use Vsampler3.5 for drums, using individual outputs for Bass Drum, Snare, Highhat, Toms and Cymbals, putting all of them in a track folder.
So in all a maximum of about 6-8 audio tracks(not counting the Vsampler outputs) and a couple of midi tracks. I am trying to create the sound of a band playing in an acoustic space with a feel of depth in the recording, I think I'm at least partially successful at doing this, and improving with time.

* - Software - S4PE

EDIT:** - Stereo tracks or Mono? - My tracks are recorded mono, but since I insert reverbs onto the tracks, rather than using busses, I switch the tracks to stereo after. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that to get a well defined stereo image, with an illusion of depth of field, its important that the reverb get exactly the same panning as the instrument it's on. It's so much simpler to achieve that with the reverbs directly on the tracks. If I was to keep the tracks mono and buss the reverbs I think that would be counter-productive to realizing this goal - because this method requires that reverbs are not shared with other instruments. I'd need a seperate reverb buss for each. That's my current theory anyway.

* - Bussing - Don't use, except, of course 1 master buss.
* - Control Surface vs Mouse- Mouse and Keyboard shortcuts
* - Monitoring (technique and equipment) - JBL L19, TOA 280ME Monitors and Fostex T20 Headphones. I often use the phones and near field monitoring, though I like to back off from the monitors when setting bass levels.
* - Effects (type and settings) Each audio track gets an FX2 Tape Sim, Compressor(Kjaerus Audio Classic, Sonitus or Blockfish) and I use the built in S4PE track EQ, always subtractively to help create the feel of separation between instruments and space in the mix.
I use reverb on tracks, not on buss - sometimes 2 per track. If I use two, the first adds ambience, with a bit of pre-delay and the second for a larger room or hall sound. This way it's possible to move the instrument closer or further away, by varying the wet/dry mix on the shorter ambient reverb.
I try to give the instrument a feel of depth, and position, never panning anything hard left or right. I've been using the Lexicon pantheon a bit, mainly for ambience, though my absolute favorite is SIR, those impulse response sounds are awesome. Though to use SIR at all requires me to freeze any track using it, as it's such a CPU hog.
If this isn't enough I have been using the Sonitus phase plug as the last track effect - very useful I think, for positioning an instrument in the stereo field, though it can cause the instrument to dissappear if you switch to monitoring in mono.
For drums I've been using the Voxengo OldSkoolVerb -Intimate room setting. It sounds great for highhats, snare and cymbals, I've been using one on each Vsampler output, but I'm thinking I may start bussing it, using just one. It doesn't use great amounts of CPU.
I use the S4PE EQ on all of the Vsampler drum outputs. Almost always, drum samples have an excessively wide frequency range. I cut off the low end from highhats and cymbals, abit of lows and/or highs from snares, bass drums and toms.
* - Spectrum Analysis - often - I keep a VoxengoSPAN on the master buss in stereo mode so when I solo something I can see as well as hear it's range and see what effect subtractive EQing is having. Also if two instruments aren't sitting well together, or if there's something that doesn't sound right, it helps in figuring out what the problem is.
* - RMS measurement - dont use it, not sure what use this is.
* - All-Digital or Digital/Analog - answered above, I think.
* - Sonar views (ie mixing in Track View vs Console) - Track view exclusively
* - using Compression (per track vs bus) - As above, I also use a Kjaerus Classic Comp on the master buss, using the premastering setting, and the Kjaerus master limiter - Mixing and mastering all in one go I guess, though if I get serious about this and do a CD I'll take off the master limiter, and get someone else to do the mastering, but for now it stays.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/1/axiologymusic.htm

The first two songs are recent S4PE productions, the third, an Instrumental is a couple of years old, using Sonar 2.2.

Andrew

ORIGINAL:
Out of interest..why send the bass,or any single instrument for that matter,to a buss?couldn't one just deal with the specific track?

I use busses to give like-sounds a common space, also for easier organisation of effects and settings, and also for CPU-relief.

Sometimes, though, when it is a single instrument, I do as you say, and insert directly into the track.

ORIGINAL: reallifer

Thanks for this topic.
As a rookie mixer, I would like to suggest adding a "what do you record mono vs stereo" to the list.
For instance, the output on my mixing board will take a single mic (vocal) signal and create a left and right track that I can record to a stereo track in Sonar. But this doesn't seem like true stereo to me and I think that it would be wiser to record a vocal track in mono. But since I have no experience to go by, I would love to know how you all do it.
Thanks,
Troy

IMO, you want to avoid recording your vocals onto a stereo track as this will limit your ability later to pan it into the soundstage. You can always clone your mono track for stereo imaging as well,
If you are applying effects, you are best to feed a mono track in and then choose whether the effect will output mono or stereo. I prefer to work with everything in mono every step of the way, so that I have as much control as possible of the stereo imaging/soundstage (though I may let an effect output in stereo during tracking, but then switch it's output to mono (if an option) during mixing). Generally speaking, though, I find that even if there is no mono switch in the effect (such as Pantheon), when it is placed in the bin of a mono track or bus, you still end up with mono pan-control of the output.

Generally, this follows the advice given by Pro's in the resources I have been using to learn this stuff.

(Note also that I am not a Pro at this, in fact, am learning things myself as I go).

Here’s where I expose myself for the true amateur that I am. <g> Not to toot my own horn here, but I think I must be doing something right, based on responses to my work in the Songs forum.

Here goes...

Software that you mix with:

Sonar 4 Producer and Adobe Audition 1.0 for surgical wav editing, although I’m doing more and more slip editing lately and using Audition a lot less. I mostly “master” with Ozone in Sonar. I still like to use Audition after mixing and mastering in Sonar for trimming finished wavs and doing things like fade-outs. I also do all of my MP3 compression in Audition. CD Architect for burning.

Stereo tracks or Mono?

Depends. Mostly mono for recorded instruments, unless I’m using my DigiTech Genesis (POD-like guitar amp modeler with stereo outputs) or for drum synth tracks.

Bussing

I love universal bussing and I use it to its fullest. For drum synth tracks, I’ll often separate the drums (kick, snare, toms, hats, etc.) and bounce to individual tracks, as well as use separate tracks for close-mic’ed and room mic’ed sounds. Then I’ll create a separate bus for each (Kick, snare, etc.) and send both close and room sounds to the bus, where I’ll add compression, eq and ‘verb as needed.

Then route all of the drum busses to a master drum bus. Sometimes I’ll put the ‘verb on the master drum bus instead of on the individual drum busses. Then send the master drum bus and all other busses (rhythm guitar, lead guitars, lead vocals, backing vocals, etc.) to a master bus. Ozone and sometimes PSP Vintage Warmer goes in the fx bin on this bus.

Control Surface vs Mouse

Mouse. I’m currently evaluating the usefulness of a control surface for my purposes. I have an initial opinion about them and many questions for users, but that’s for another thread.

Monitoring (technique and equipment)

Mackie HR- 624 nearfields run through the control room outs of my Mackie SR24-4 VLZ Pro mixer. The 624’s aren’t quite as good as my old NS-10Ms for exposing crap and crud buried in my mixes, but they are very pleasant (read: non-fatiguing) to work with for long mixing sessions and have much better bass response.

Effects (type and settings)

Almost all UAD-1 Powered Plug-ins. Often I’ll start with one of the canned presets and tweak from there. When I find something that works, I’ll save it to a custom preset and use it again in a similar situation.

Different parameters I’ve used could fill several pages and I’m still learning, especially when it comes to compression, eq and reverb parameters. Mostly I just trust my ears.

Spectrum Analysis

None. I “wing it” by ear only.

RMS measurement

Wing it. Ear only.

All-Digital or Digital/Analog

100% digital.

Sonar views (ie mixing in Track View vs Console)

While tracking or MIDI sequencing, I rarely ever open the Console View and do almost all of my work in the Track and Piano Roll views.

When it’s time to mix, it’s almost all Console View. Once the parts are “in the can” the only thing I use the Track View for is wav editing.

Using Compression (per track vs bus)

Depends on the material and what type of instrument. Most of my effects are run from busses. I use compression on individual tracks for bass guitar and individual vocal tracks.

What type of music do you record?

All kinds, but I’m not that much into electronic music or hip-hop. Mostly rock (I play guitar and sing in a punk-influenced hard rock band). I also enjoy playing and recording traditional Country, Blues, Rockabilly, Funk and Doo-Wop.



I've added two additional sections to my response. They may not be directly related to the mixing process, but are indirectly related and very important IMHO.



Analog mixing board?

I use a Mackie SR24-4 VLZ-Pro Mixing board and I can’t imagine being without it. The board is extremely quiet and transparent. It has other goodies too, like two headphone outputs and a talkback section.

The first eight channels of the board are for inputs only. I have three mic channels, one dedicated to bass guitar (my SansAmp Bass Driver DI is connected to this channel), and stereo pairs for my Genesis and DR-550 drum machine. The VLZ-Pro preamps on this board are not the best, but are adequate and sound pretty good to me. I can route any of these channels to any input on my Delta 1010 using the board’s four busses and 6 aux sends.

The next eight channels are for the analog outputs from the Delta 1010. When mixing, I use a single stereo pair. For tracking, this is where the mixer rocks! I use one pair to monitor backing tracks, one pair for input monitoring, and one pair for the audio metronome. The faders are right there at my fingertips if I need to make any adjustments to the headphone mix. I still haven’t found a use for the other pair yet, but it’s nice to know they’ll be there when I do find a use for them!

The rest of the channels are used for miscellaneous things such as the soundcard inputs for my non-DAW PC, turntable, CD player or whatever else I might need to patch in there. There are a few more channels there than I need, but it’s so nice to have the breathing room.

Tracking:

In my opinion, tracking is among the most critical parts of the recording process! If you don’t use extreme attention to detail here, your mixing session will amount to little more than turd polishing!

Of course, the subject of mic placement, mic and preamp selection for a given situation is for another thread. (and there is a wealth of information on this forum and elsewhere on the net.) My goal is to have an idea of what sound I’m looking for and I don’t hit record until I hear that sound coming from the monitors. I try to keep the peaks below -6db when tracking.

Another important factor is talent! The term “Turd polishing” applies here too. It’s important to try and capture the emotional vibe of the instrument/vocalist. If the record-ee is trying too hard to nail that note or solo, and you keep trying multiple takes to get it right, the vibe is often lost. If you’re trying and trying and it’s just not happening, get someone else to play/sing the part or it or save it for another day and move on to on something else.

What does this have to do with mixing? A lot IMHO! The best mixes begin when with no effects, eq or panning, you just throw up the faders and it already sounds nice!

Mixing should be for balancing sounds and creating a believable acoustic space with the great tracks you have, not performing damage control!

Steve and BlindDog
Thanks for the good advice.

Nice write-ups everyone. A lot of REALLY good information being shared here.

Hopefully, more to come........

ORIGINAL: bubblefish

thanks for sharing guys i should definatly get all the help i can

If I need compression during mixing I usually add one on a buss and route the track I want to compress to the buss. I believe this is called "New York" style compression

.

i would be interested to hear others opinion on this, is it something that widly used? what settings would you use for such a general compression?

The idea here is that you are not affecting the original track and , if done right, you can blend the two (or more) to get a nice sound. Using this technique you shouldnt really "hear" the compression. Now if you wanted to use the compression to really pump the sound or like an effect, you would be better off just running one as an insert.
I hope this makes some sense. I should also note that i usually compress whilt tracking. So my compression settings are pretty light, depending.

* - Software that you mix with (added on edit)

Sonar 4.01 PE for tracking and mixing. Cool Edit 2.1 for stereo editing/ trimming/ burning/ mastering.

** - Stereo tracks or Mono?
Depends on source material.
Usually acoustic instruments in stereo, and electric instruments in stereo only if there's a dramatic stereo effect like ping pong delay or two amplifiers.

If there's room in the mix, I love tracking vocals with an M/S pair and having the lead in stereo. Once the singer figures out how to work the mic, this can be nicely expressive.

* - Bussing
Sometimes I'll buss for effects (either group compression like on backing vox, or for special effects like gating drums into a reverb send but not into the 2-buss) or for the sake of tidiness.


* - Control Surface vs Mouse
Mice suck. I use them as little as possible. I use an o1v for the control surface. Nice to just grab a solo or mute and then move to a half-dozen faders. Much faster and easier on the wrists.

Also in the process of mapping a keystation 88 to the transport and console controls to make tracking from the keys smoother. And OK, I'll admit it. It's cool to move one of the 88's sliders and see the fader on the Yamaha move with it

* - Monitoring (technique and equipment)
Quietly as possible for as long as possible. I'd love to say I take frequent breaks, but I'm not good at reminding myself to.

I use JBL 4311s for mains, realistic minimus 7's for "the average home" sound, and a pair of super cheap, came-with-the-e-machine-at-work computer speakers for "rot-gut" sound simulation. I used to use a pair of Alesis point-sevens for NS-10 duty, but they don't fit in my new space. I may re-arrange to accomodate them. I'll receive the m-audio surround package this week too, as I don't have enough cans of worms already open .


* - Effects (type and settings)
I like the UAD-1 f/x as the go-to bunch for compression. Impressed with the realverb on the card too. I have used and like the pantheon, but agree it's not as easy to set up as it should be.

Externally, I use the gates/ comps in the o1v if I need to side-chain something, and will also use its two multif/x. I've got a bunch of other rack gear collecting dust, but will sometimes use a quadraverb for leslie simulation, and will sometimes use some dbx comp's on bass and kick when tracking.

As for f/x settings, I usually adjust everything to taste per song, even if I'm mixing a lot of tunes. I sometimes make presets of settings for vocals and the like, but this is rare.

* - Spectrum Analysis
We've been given ears to hear things. Not eyes.

* - RMS measurement
I'm not really concerned with metering past, "uh, did it clip?". I've found too many folks too obsessed with metering to the point it stifles creativity. I'm really more concerned with getting good tones and getting them to work well in a mix's context.

* - All-Digital or Digital/Analog
Moving into the all-dig realm. I used to use Cool Edit as a virtual tape deck and have it slaved to a reel to reel 8-track and mix analog. I liked that, but as I've progressed away from the PII @ 400mhz that ran on, I'm seeing less of a reason to do anything outside the box, save for some special effects. That said, I do have a decent analog board (sound workshop) and may give a go at using it for a summing buss. No hurry to try that though.


* - Sonar views (ie mixing in Track View vs Console)
Track view for tracking and editing, Console view for mixing, lyric sheet for notes. Nice to have your mix notes greet you when you open a session, just in case you're forgetful like me...

* - using Compression (per track vs bus)
A bit of both as described above. One nice trick is to combine the two. Like compressing individual vox, then running them to a buss and compressing that. The individual comps prevent a spiky track from 'nerfing' the other vox, and the buss comp glues them together nicely. For thick vox beds, try taking the vox reverb return and send it into this compressing buss.

** - what type of music do you record?
indie rock, alt-country, folk, punk, pop.


here is one of the more recent, unmastered mixes I've done, for a project called above the orange trees. Any of the tunes on the ATOT site that aren't live I also did, but with cool edit and/or ADATs as Sonar is a new acquisition.