Attacking is a harsh word. Examining would be better, but only because you put it up. I patched it into soundforge at Unity gain and recorded the audio back through the soundcard, and then ran the standard Soundforge analysis tools on it. So any change in levels could be attributed to perhaps the Soundcloud compression. If you put up the original 2-track wav then I could run the same tools and we'll see if we get the same results. 

 

John T

BenMMusTech



ok, this does not happen with digital but the theory is if they the recording engineers of yesterday year recorded hot, then we must do the same, because I don't believe it was just a case of of driving equipment to get harmonics, I also believe, this is how they acheived some of that warmth.

How analogue warmth was gained from running signals hot to tape and through certain other bits of gear is a well understood thing. Signals levels within digital are also a well understood thing. The two things are not, ho ho, analogous.

Honestly, you should listen to what people are telling you here, you could lean some useful stuff. You are simply flat wrong on this one.

I am listening but what I am saying by having to lower your signals to keep within the digital range ie:no clipping, you are losing the meat of the picture.  Ok I am going to have to do some experiments on this one.
 
What I am saying is lets say we record a bass at -12db for peaks and -1db for peaks, IMHO the one recorded lower will be less fat and warm.  I can hear what you are going to say, just turn it back up once you have recorded it but in my belief this will not solve the warm/cold agrument.  Because in the recording stage is where the magic happens even with cheap preamps, everything has a optimum operating level.  We can see this in the Virtual emualtion effects when it is better to run the Fairchild hot, becuase that is how the original worked.
 
This is where my languge fails me and the science fails us all, I have said this is just my theory and I have pointed to two examples where the theory works.  I think it was you John who said you could not hear the warmth I was hearing (on my tracks) but the warmth is different to analog (tape,Lp).  This is because analog never gives the full picture.  Records only have a dynamic range of 50 db, so what most people call warmth is in actual fact, a lack of the full picture.  So when people go oh digital is so cold, it's because they are hearing a much broader dynamic range.
 
All I am doing with my theory is to try and counter that, I believe I have, it's up to you if you think I have or have not. 
 
Peace Ben

Ben, it is truly special to have you back. And yes, we'd love for you to post your 4000 word essay on digital warmth!

BenMMusTech


Sorry "Attacking" harsh word, I have just tried to post a non compressed version on my website and I am unallowed, don't have the right player but it def, seems to be somthing you are doing esp if you are recording the track out of your soundcard, then back into the soundcard of course the signal is going to get all screwed up, if you know of any way I can post or sent track let me know. 

Do you understand what 'at Unity' means?

What I am saying is lets say we record a bass at -12db for peaks and -1db for peaks, IMHO the one recorded lower will be less fat and warm.  

Wrong

 Because in the recording stage is where the magic happens even with cheap preamps, everything has a optimum operating level.  We can see this in the Virtual emualtion effects when it is better to run the Fairchild hot, becuase that is how the original worked. 

In the real world, hot to the Fairchild was -18dbFS.  Please educate yourself here on the difference between 0dB (VU) in the analog world and 0dB in the digital world. 

This is where my languge fails me and the science fails us all, I have said this is just my theory and I have pointed to two examples where the theory works.  I think it was you John who said you could not hear the warmth I was hearing (on my tracks) but the warmth is different to analog (tape,Lp).  This is because analog never gives the full picture.  Records only have a dynamic range of 50 db, so what most people call warmth is in actual fact, a lack of the full picture.  So when people go oh digital is so cold, it's because they are hearing a much broader dynamic range.
 

Completely wrong. You're confusing dynamics with frequency response. 

I'm sorry, mate, but you're flat wrong on this and I've typed all I can type on this subject.