Keni
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Mixing/Mastering Question
I've done many things over the years and I'm wondering what is considered "proper" and what are most people doing for their' dithering...
If you're working at 24/48 and your (Record bit depth 24 render bit depth 64) and most tracks are frozen (but not all)...
Would you dither to a 24/48 mix and then master with a dither to 16/441?
Currently I have not been dithering the mix and only dithering the master...
Watch think?
Thanks...
Keni
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 16:26:52
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I keep everything at 48/24 then dither at the last bounce to a stereo wave.
Dithering adds noise and should only be done while reducing bit depth, preferably only once. So says Roey Izahki in his Mixing Audio book.
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 16:28:12
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Keni
I've done many things over the years and I'm wondering what is considered "proper" and what are most people doing for their' dithering...
If you're working at 24/48 and your (Record bit depth 24 render bit depth 64) and most tracks are frozen (but not all)...
Would you dither to a 24/48 mix and then master with a dither to 16/441?
Currently I have not been dithering the mix and only dithering the master...
Watch think?
Thanks...
Keni
It is my understanding you only need to dither when the bit rate is changing. So by that logic, you are doing it right.
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 16:29:43
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Also be aware of plugs on the master bus for the mix that dither, and turn off their dithering. Also, be sure to turn off SONAR's dithering if the bit rate is not changing.
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stonehedge
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 16:29:58
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I usually advise not to dither till the end. Dither only on the final master when converting from 24 to 16 bit.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 16:35:39
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You don't need to dither when going from 48 to 44.1, only when going to 24 down to 16. So many people seem to make this mistake. It should be at the very end. All fades and crops, limiting, compressing, eq, everything should be done. Then, dither and convert down to 44.1/16, print to CD, or convert to MP3, and then play the music. That should be it. No other order has any reason to come about. You only dither once. You never drop it down to 16 bits till the very end.
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Grem
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:32:09
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Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
FastBikerBoy is right in that dithering introduces NOISE. IOW it puts noise in your recording.
Grem
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:34:00
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Grem
Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
So was stonehedge, fastbikerboy and bapu. And as it turns out the OP as well.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:39:14
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bapu
Grem
Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
So was stonehedge, fastbikerboy and bapu. And as it turns out the OP as well.
Oh. Do we win a prize?
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Grem
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:42:53
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bapu
Grem
Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
So was stonehedge, fastbikerboy and bapu. And as it turns out the OP as well.
The way they stated it, including you, didn't state it with the authority Matt did.
Grem
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:42:57
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Would you dither to a 24/48 mix and then master with a dither to 16/441?
No, you would master it at its original bit depth and sample rate (24/48) and then your would dither upon exporting it to 16/44 Dither is just low level noise that gets added to a digital audio signal. This low level noise helps mask and get rid of quantization errors..
Dithering should only be applied at the very last stage of the mix, when your going form a higher bit depth, to a lower bit depth. Like going form 24bit to 16bit. This goes for fixed point and floating point bit depths.
If your in 16bit and you have a plugin that processes your audio signal with a 64bit floating point engine, you need to dither upon mixdown of that track or mix.
You do not dither when you go from a lower bit depth to a higher bit depth. You only need to dither when going down in bit depths. So, if you go from 24bit to 32bit floating point, you do not need to dither.
post edited by CJaysMusic - 2011/11/01 17:50:45
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Anderton
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 17:47:37
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Y'all might find this article helpfu: Much Ado About Dithering. It talks about how dithering works, noise shaping, dithering rules, etc.
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stonehedge
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 18:42:23
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FastBikerBoy
bapu
Grem
Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
So was stonehedge, fastbikerboy and bapu. And as it turns out the OP as well.
Oh. Do we win a prize?
Hey I'm a small time poster here and bapu acknowledged my existance here. I think that was the prize for me. 
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bapu
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/01 18:44:27
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FastBikerBoy
bapu
Grem
Matt is correct. No other reason to dither. Only when dropping in bit depth.
So was stonehedge, fastbikerboy and bapu. And as it turns out the OP as well.
Oh. Do we win a prize?
Well, if you consider that this thread will stay in this forum......
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Keni
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/02 12:57:12
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Thanks Gang...
As I allude in my original post and everyone has confirmed, it's only to be done when converting bit depth, not sample rate... and I understand the reasoning.
But something in my brain keeps reminding me of when dithering first appeared in digital recording... Part of the explanation was that the dithering 'also' deals with the line-up of sample segments where the spaces and data do not line-up... So with this thought in mind I keep thinking to use a mild dithering with as little noise shaping as possible to deal with this one aspect...
Has anyone else heard of this or is it another hallucination for me to consider?
Everyone's posts deserve a reward as they all came to my "rescue"!
Thanks again...
Keni
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Chregg
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/02 20:11:11
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deals with the line-up of sample segments where the spaces and data do not line-up.....................thats levels of measurement keni, bit depth, the noise is added to reeduce the error there
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Keni
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Re:Mixing/Mastering Question
2011/11/02 20:17:40
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Chregg
deals with the line-up of sample segments where the spaces and data do not line-up.....................thats levels of measurement keni, bit depth, the noise is added to reeduce the error there
Thanks Chregg... Yes, this is what I'm referring to. Are you saying that the lineup is reflected in the bit depth? How is that done when the bit depth is written into each sample segment, is it not? Keni
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