Monitor placement: best practice/input

it's always cool to build a studio...

You asked about monitor placement.... you can clearly see where mine are located. I have a sub on the floor to the right side of the pic..... it actually sets slightly behind me on the right side.

here's mine>>>> I  hope this helps.



looking behind me..... there are the amps.... the Boogie sets on the sub.

RP5's in my opinion are a little more consumer sounding than studio sounding. Compared to the RP6 and RP8 (which I thought sounded pretty similar, except that the 8's have more power and peak output as well as the extended response), the RP5's sound like the bass has been hyped a little to stop them sounding too small - just like what they do in small consumer speakers. Essentially, speakers can be designed with a low bass boost just above the cutoff frequency and this gives you the perception that there is a lower extended response. I think they sound a little like this. But they still aren't 'bad', I just don't like them. You can certainly still mix on them. They are better than your consumer stereo that's for sure.

As for placement, you want the long wall behind you. This makes reflections from the back wall less significant as this can severely color the sound. You want your rig set up in the centre (not the centre of the room, the centre but against the wall), only to maintain a balanced stereo image. You will be hearing some bass response issues due to this, but the balanced stereo image is more important. DO NOT PUT YOUR MONITORS IN A CORNER. 95% of the time, there is no excuse. Sacrifice some room space if you have to, but get them out of the corners. I'm talking MAJOR bass issues with being tight into a corner - not to add to the major issues you probably already have. Try to pull them at least a foot away from the wall. Even 2' if you can manage it. But DO NOT have it set up so your head is in the centre of the room. Baaaad bass response. BAAAAAAD. If you have the time, build some monitor stands. Simple construction - buy two squares of dense wood maybe 8"x8", plastic pipe approx 3' high and 4" diameter, long steel rod which can pass through the plastic pipe with thread on either end so you can drill into the wood and screw the wooden squares onto either end of the pipe. Fill the pipe with sand before doing this (but put the steel rod through first!) Make it nice and tight. If you want you can make some little end caps for the floor and speakers to help decouple the stands from the floor, and the speakers from the stands. That makes one stand. So repeat. If going on your desk, get foam padding, or whatever you can do to decouple the monitors from the desk. Desks resonate a LOT. Just strum your guitar, then make the body of the guitar touch your desk and you'll understand. A simple test you can do to see if it is decoupled well is to turn off one monitor, play some music, then get a friend to lift the monitor off the desk just a little. If you can hear a significant difference, your desk is probbaly not decoupled very well. And as already mentioned, try to get your tweeters either at ear level or point down to your ears. You also get reflections from the monitors bouncing off your desk and to your ear combining with the direct signal. This creates comb filtering. Angling your desk or putting absorptive or diffusive material in the reflection point on your desk can help reduce this. In practise, I have not been able to hear a difference IN MY SET UP. Your results may vary. And last but not least, change your monitor positions. Move them round. Listen. Even just an inch can actually make a difference. Sometimes significantly. Sometimes not so. And don't get a sub unless you have another $10,000 to spend on your room treatment - and preferably an angled ceiling and walled room. Oh and almost forgot, place those acoustic panels at the reflection points - deal with the sides first to get your stereo image tighter. This is where I notice most difference. Then the back reflections and ceiling refection. If you have some bass traps, then in the corners, and play around with the placement and see which works best.

Matt, thanks bunches for taking the time.
I'll certainly refer to this post again when I get the RP5's


Thanks lads,

Rich

The advice to avoid corners is good advice. Given the opportunity to have a dedicated studio space that is not shared with other daily household usages, I would love that! Like so many others, I have no other place to have my studio set up. One of my speakers is even in a closed in space in a cabinet (see pic above in post 2)

I have pondered over this situation... is it good, is it bad....? Would I love to have a dedicated room that I could treat? Uhhhhh yeah! Currently however, that is not an option for me at this time. If I want to record, I have no other choice but to use this room and space as it is. I think there are many others just like me, that do not have the option or luxury of having a studio set up in a dedicated room. 

Does mixing in this space throw my sound and mixing off? Well..... take a listen to the music that I record and mix in that space and you tell me.

I try to make do.

A basement is good but...... since you know it lets water in during heavy rains..... keep the gear OFF THE FLOOR....

I would consider a water level alarm of some sort so you can be alerted if the water starts to rise in the basement.

We already had someone else here get flooded out in a basement...... so be forewarned.

Something that has not been picked up so far and it is quite important and that is not only try to keep speakers away from walls if you can but the distance between them is also quite important. Too close and you wont hear the stereo image well and you will have a buldging centre image level wise. Too far apart and you have a very weak centre image.

The speakers in Herb's  (Guitarhacker) setup are too far apart. Not only that but there seems to be some vertical panels in between the speakers as well almost concealing them from each other. I am not sure that is all a good idea either. The old equilateral triangle approach is good. The distance apart should be about the same distance you are away from each of them as well. (Unless Herb sits a fair way back of course which I suspect he does not) You will get an even and strong centre image.

When your speakers are far apart then you tend to push up things that are panned centre. (because the centre image is weak and you are compensating) Also hard panned sounds are emphasised too much a bit too. Herb may be good at judging this and actually adjust for it and I say he does but one should not have to project that in advance. Better to hear it the way it is.

Think of each reflection as a phantom speaker playing the same material but with a different frequency response and delayed. You're surrounded by hundreds of these phantom speakers and you can't turn them down or off. They blur stereo separation, mask transients, exaggerate the reverb in your mix and grossly distort the frequency response you hear.

Picture just one reflection as a line drawn from your speaker to the nearest wall and then to your ears. If the wall is 1' away from the speaker, and your ears are 3' away, the phantom speaker is the equivalent of between 4' and 6' away depending on the angle of reflection. Let's say the volume of the phantom speaker is 12db lower than your mains. Doubling the distance would increase that difference to 18db. Each doubling of the distance drops another 6db.

Obviously, the greater the distance the less interference the phantom speaker causes. Of course, the physical dimensions of your room limit how far you can get away from these phantom speakers. But the first step is always to get the speakers as far away as possible from any wall, especially the wall immediately behind them.

You can, however, improve on the attenuation amount by reducing the reflectivity of the wall, through the use of broadband absorbers. These effectively push the distance of the wall further away, turning down the volume on the phantom speaker. Four 3-inch thicknesses of rigid fiberglass place placed at the first-reflection points (one on each side, plus two on the ceiling) will greatly reduce the level of reflections, especially in the higher frequencies where destructive and constructive interference are most likely to result in audible comb filtering.

Another factor is maintaining symmetry. You can't eliminate the effects of reflections, but you can at least make sure they're equal between the left and right speakers. So try to situate the speakers so they're equidistant from the nearest walls. And of course always avoid corners, the absolute worst place to put a speaker.

Also avoid setting up the room in such a way as to end up with your ears being in the exact center of the room. Next to corners, the center is where resonances are most problematic.

Keep in mind that window glass is more reflective than drywall, so if you have a choice between getting away from walls or getting away from windows, choose the latter. My own windows are covered with 703, with about a 1' gap left at the top to let in some natural light. (But here in the gloomy Pacific Northwest, shutting out natural light isn't giving up much.)

Speaker stands and pads are also recommended over placing speakers on a desktop or meter bridge, because they'll transfer less energy to the surface they're sitting on, be less affected by reflections off the desk, and can be better aimed at your ears. Pick up some Mopads. I'm not a fan of Auralex products generally, but Mopads are a cheap (~$40) investment that can do some good. If that's beyond your budget, use a stack of carpet samples.

Im not sure about those monitors but you may be better off with front firing ports compared to rear firing ports. You want to make an equalateral triangle with the two monitors and your head. The monitors should be at eye level with the tweeter and cone at ear level. Dont lay them on thier side!
For early reflection problems, place a mirror on the front of your monitor, everything you see in the mirror is the reflection area that needs to be treated.
Treat as many corners as you can with bass traps.

It mnight pay to play music in your room and just walk around to see where the mixing sweet spot might be, it might not be how you have the room set up. Or better yet, sit down and get a friend to move a speaker around.

Remember that your room is an instrument and needs to be tuned, I wouldnt use a guitar that hadnt been tuned. Same goes for rooms!

Sorry not enough coffee this morning, matts right, have a friend hold a mirror against the wall while you sit at mix position. When you see your speakers in the mirror, put an X on the wall. This is an early reflection point

You're thinking too much!! Try thinking about it this way. Lets just imagine you have only one monitor first. You are going to get one reflection per wall. So we need to work out which spots on each wall.

 - Left wall, just imagine the sound coming out of the speaker to your left wall and think at what spot it needs to bounce off the wall to make it to your ear. Mark an X there. Now do the same from your other speaker. Mark an X. The two X's should be at nearly the same place. Now all you need on that wall is insulation probably no more than 2'X2'.

 - Do the same for the right wall. If your room is symmetrical, it should be exactly opposite.

 - Now the front wall and back wall will probably have their X's really far apart. So you might need two separate panels for each speaker.

 - The ceiling 'tends' to just have one big long panel spanning the two X's. But it can be however you like it. It's probably usually easier to just hang the one big panel than two smaller ones.

And that's it! For an image, refer to this site:

http://www.asc-studio-aco...om/acoustic_basics.htm

Scroll down to the end of section two for the pictures. They just don't have the ceiling included, but I'm sure it's written there somewhere (I did not read the article, just search it for the image). Make sure you read the bit on futter echoes too, I was going to mention that next, but it's in the article!

new gear......!

wst3

rotaholic


Sorry not enough coffee this morning, matts right, have a friend hold a mirror against the wall while you sit at mix position. When you see your speakers in the mirror, put an X on the wall. This is an early reflection point

Minor quibble - when you see the speaker it is a reflection, but it is not necessarily an early reflection, or more to the point, a problem reflection.

The mirror trick is a fantastic tool though!

If you have a friend walking around with this mirror, then it will be not only an early reflection, but the first reflection on that wall that will reach your ears (or eyes). If your room is made of mirrors though, then it could get difficult to tell if it's a first, second, third etc. As for it being a problem, if you have a flat wall as your reflection surface which is highly reflective (like most home walls) then it WILL produce comb filtering unless something is in the way to block the signal or you diffuse it or absorb the reflection. You need to minimise comb filtering because it IS a problem and it is usually most significant on the first reflection points. So I'd say for most, it is definitely a problem reflection - unless there is something going on to stop it from causing comb filtering.

I like Jeff's tip of actually listening to your room.


Celticpiping, it seems as if you are just building this room out. No one seems to have mentioned it yet... do you have to use 11x12 for dimensions? That's nearly square... a nice rectangle like 11x17 would be a lot more likely to provide some sweet spots for listening.

Is there any chance you can do something like that?

best regards,
mike

http://www.rich.gouette.com/?p=703