More weirdness - clip changes size when moved

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sharke
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2013/02/12 01:29:23 (permalink)

More weirdness - clip changes size when moved

I have a clip that's of length 7:720, so I extend it on the right hand size to make a square 8:000. 

But when I move the clip, the size reverts back to 7:720. Doesn't matter how many times I change it to 8:000, it reverts back to the original size every time I move it. 

Any ideas on this one? 

James
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    chuckebaby
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 01:35:17 (permalink)
    Have you tried setting the proper lenth in the Inspector under track properties?

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    #2
    sharke
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 01:39:54 (permalink)
    chuckebaby


    Have you tried setting the proper lenth in the Inspector under track properties?

    Yep, both methods result in the reversion to the original size when I move the clip. 

    James
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    soens
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 01:47:15 (permalink)
    If there is no notes in the blank area then the clip will shrink to the last note.

    The blank area you keep seeing is more of a visual thing than a real thing.

    Technically the last note is the end of the clip.
    #4
    soens
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 01:49:08 (permalink)
    If you need a clip to extend beyond the last note you can put a silent note there or sometimes I use a 0'd controller there.
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    sharke
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 01:58:23 (permalink)
    I'm sure that didn't used to happen for me, lol! I must be going mad. 

    Anyway, grrr. I wish it didn't. When I'm arranging EDM I like to see clips as blocks of even length, it helps as a visual guide when you're lining stuff up, if like me you don't like Aim Assist. 

    James
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 04:29:42 (permalink)
    sharke


    I'm sure that didn't used to happen for me, lol! I must be going mad.  

     

    That is unfortunately the way MIDI clips have always behaved. It's quite annoying. There are SO many situations when
    slip editing the length of a MIDI-clip to either direction would be useful.
     
    If it's absolutely inevitable to have data at the end of a MIDI clip, it would be at least nice to have some kind of a macro for it ("Stretch clip to Now-time") which would add harmless data automatically. 

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    Tom Riggs
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 08:49:42 (permalink)
    I think if you stretch the clip as you want and then enable grove clip it will retain its length.

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    #8
    tbosco
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 16:01:00 (permalink)
    I may be wrong about this, but after you apply slip editing, if you then do "Apply Trimming", does that make the clip change its length?

    I kind of think since there is no audio data at the end of a slip edited clip, it's actual "length" is governed by the audio dat, not the size of the clip curtains.

    ...but I might be wrong, so don't quote me. 

    :-)

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    #9
    sharke
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 16:59:37 (permalink)
    OK so now I'm confused. In the project I was working in, clips that I'd resized to a round figure were reverting back to their original length when moved, and soens pointed out that this is expected behavior. I thought that was strange, because I'd never noticed it before when doing exactly the same thing. I thought I was going crazy. 

    So I just tried an experiment. I started a new project and inserted a MIDI track. I then dragged a Groove Monkee MIDI drum pattern into the track from the browser. It had a length of 7:944, which I resized to 8:000. Now, when I move it around, it retains its size. In fact I can make it 16:000 and it still retains its size when I move it. Sonar does not truncate it to cut off the empty space. 
    What is going on? Confused!

    James
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    sharke
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 17:03:47 (permalink)
    tbosco


    I may be wrong about this, but after you apply slip editing, if you then do "Apply Trimming", does that make the clip change its length?

    I kind of think since there is no audio data at the end of a slip edited clip, it's actual "length" is governed by the audio dat, not the size of the clip curtains.

    ...but I might be wrong, so don't quote me. 

    :-)

    I'm actually working with all MIDI, no audio. 

    James
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    #11
    soens
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/12 20:10:47 (permalink)
    Not sure why I said that either.

    Whenever I Move or Copy/Paste a clip it retains it's size no matter where the data is.

    I can even split off the blank area and move it around without altering it's size.

    What's the point of having an empty clip? There's nothig there. Again, I think it is simply a visual reference.

    So to answer your original Q of clips changing size when moved, I have no clue.
    #12
    b rock
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/13 10:05:10 (permalink)
    chuckebaby - Have you tried setting the proper lenth in the Inspector under track properties?

     Yep, both methods result in the reversion to the original size when I move the clip.

     
    Not sure why this isn't working for you (although I don't have the X2a update installed yet).  The most consistent way for me has always been to lock in the clip length by changing that parameter under Clip Properties.  That's been my process throughout; covering a significant number of Sonar revisions.
     
    Let me see if I can "break" that with a few more tests later on.
    #13
    sharke
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    Re:More weirdness - clip changes size when moved 2013/02/19 01:23:16 (permalink)
    So I FINALLY worked out what was causing this annoying problem (for anyone who's interested). 

    I had "non destructive MIDI editing" unchecked in the preferences. With this unchecked, MIDI clips will be truncated to the edge of the rightmost note in them after you move or copy them. So if you have a MIDI clip of size 7:840 and you drag that clip out to a size of 8:0, then as soon as you move or copy it, the size will be truncated back to 7:840. The manual's explanation of this setting is:


    Select this option to make all MIDI editing non-destructive. When toggled on, this option forces deleted data to be retained even though it is not visible.


    You can see what's going on in Sonar's clumsy way (sort of). When you stretch out a MIDI clip so that part of it is blank, Sonar sees this blank section as "deleted data" and retains it. Of course what it's doing is "retaining" data that wasn't even there in the first place - you've just fooled it into thinking that there is deleted data by stretching the clip out to include blank space. 
    And I guess I didn't fully articulate why this is so important to me: I regularly stretch MIDI clips out to the nearest bar so that I can easily click on them and loop them. If you've got a MIDI drum clip that's 7:840 and you select it and shift-L, the loop points are going to be set to a width of 7:840 instead of 8:0, meaning the loop is going to be out of rhythm. Of course I could set it by drag selecting the bars on the timeline, but this is a pain. Anyway it doesn't matter now because I FINALLY got this sorted!





    James
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    #14
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