jdscott
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More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
Ok.....everyone is probably sick of my MIDI drum questions...
I have researched tirelessly (sp?) a.k.a. a lot, on drum vst's....pouring over this thread on Jamstix, Ezdrummer, addcitivedrums, etc....what I want is just to simply be able to change the sound of the drums. OUr drummer will play the actual beat, we are not "painting" in a drum beat with TTS-1. I don't need loops. The default edirol sounds, and the TTS-1 sounds are not "real enough"? I suppose these are actually notes from my sound card. How do I change them? anyone know? I use edrum monitor to run the kit to MIDI and out through edirol or TTS-1. I would love to have different kits to choose from without spending tons'o'money in the process. I just need drum sounds, not all the other stuff that comes in drum vst's. Is it possible to "taste test" drum notes online, and if you like it, download it to your soundcard, or somewhere on the pc so I can trigger it with our kit?
well, thanx again for your understanding of this latest obsession of mine of trying to get real drums in our recordings, without using...well...er...real...(ahem) drums...anyway, thanx.
JD Scott
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/08 23:45:25
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Did you try out the Proteus VX drums?
With TTS-1, you can alter the drums (or any instrument), add effects, even add and save your own instrument sounds to be played in TTS-1, according to the TTS-1 help file. I've never tried it, but I see that it could be useful.
You're using a Simmons electronic kit, right? Do they sound good? Are they what you want?
If so, you can record them in MC as audio, one hit at a time, at different volumes, bounce each drum hit to Clips, add them to TTS-1 and create your own drum kit there. I think.
Give each clip a unique name before Bounce To Clips by right-clicking the clip and selecting Rename, then type in a useful title, like 'Snare Loud' or 'Tom 2'... you get the idea.
That way you'll have the actual sound of your drum kit available all the time.
I wonder if anyone else has tried it?
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jdscott
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 00:07:12
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The Simmons is not recognized as a "preferred" instrument by MC4....so, we get the default notes. :( it bypasses the Simmons Brain....frustrating.
Proteus? What is that? I shall check it out.....thanx for the wisdom....I will let you all know what I find.
I like the record to audio thing you explained. Might try that as well.
Let you know...and thanx again,
JD Scott
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Wood67
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 04:52:21
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ProteusVX is a free VST that has a stack of sounds - not just limited to drums. It has several kits which may suit you. Another offering is Independence Free. I used its kit for quite a while until I got EZDrummer recently.
There's also a ton of electronic drum modules and simulations of older drum machines. Best thing is to do a search on KVR and try them out.
Finally, if you get Computer Music magazine they have a CM Sampler VST on the cover disc, and are always adding kit samples each month. That costs a few quid each month but can be good value.
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 11:03:21
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Proteus? What is that? Sorry, jd. Confused you for another user who wanted to know how to use the Proteus drums. Proteus VX is a great-sounding soft synth from Creative. Go to www.creative.com and look for the Proteus VX link. If it's still free, it's definitely worth the effort. Over 1.200 sounds, including drum sets. You have the Simmons kit that doesn't have a MIDI in, correct? It just has a MIDI out, I think I remember. So you can write the MIDI data using the drums, but you can't make MC play the Simmons.
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 18:34:44
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add them to TTS-1 and create your own drum kit there. I think. I thought. Seems you can't add to the TTS-1 library of sounds. At least I couldn't figure out how. You can tune the drums, add reverb or chorus and change other parameters, save them as a User preset. I may have misunderstood some of the help file stuff, a not-uncommon occurence. 
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jdscott
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 20:17:34
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Thanx everyone. I will check on Proteus...sounds cool. Yeah, Greg, I have gone into TTS-1 and tweeked the drums a little, and I thought I got some good sounds, but our drummer is a bit picky,(aren't they all?...until it comes to beer choice.) We will mess with some sounds from Proteus, and we will let everyone know what we came up with.
Thanx to all,
JD
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/09 23:29:52
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but our drummer is a bit picky Then maybe he can spring for SONAR Home Studio 7, which has Drop Zone, a sampler and sample player. He can then record his favorite drum sounds, load them in DZ and trigger those sounds using MIDI. 
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jdscott
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 00:19:07
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HA! a drummer?! Lucky he shows up on time at the least!
MC4 has Dropzone...I see it in the vst menu...same as you're talking about in Sonar? or is it the base model version?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 07:08:17
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From reading the OP... it looks to me like you have a real drummer playing a real kit.... I didn't see (or missed) where you said if it was acoustic or midi. You need to look into DRUM REPLACEMENT software.... if it's an acoustic kit.... I only recently heard about this technique so I really don't have a place to start on that except GOOGLE. If it is a midi kit....ANY of the programs mentioned will allow you to use your "live drummer" midi track and easily change the kit...and even edit the notes he has played. Jamstix for example...has a midi module mode that plays existing imported midi tracks and lets you choose from dozens of available kits. I'm sure the other programs have a similar feature. Jamstix even lets you go in and play with the individual drum parameters... like ambience, tuning, hit power, and so much more...all at the individual drum level. I want to say it comes with something like 60 kits... and you can buy more if you need them.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/02/10 07:10:51
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Robomusic
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 11:53:22
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Yes Herb he is playing a midi drum kit into MC and wanting to record the midi. and use a better sounding drum synth to replay that.
My question would be why not record the audio output of the midi kits brain? It would sound better and also more real.
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 13:08:39
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jd, you have MC 4? Okay, I think you're all set!
Get your drummer to bring in his favorite drum set, record each piece one hit at a time at varying volumes, split the track into seperate clips of each hit, rename them to what drum they are, click each clip and select Bounc To Clip(s), use the Insert menu to open DZ (it's the same in MC 4 and SONAR), then drag a clip into DZ.
Then open a MIDI track, place notes where you want that drum clip to sound, then set the MIDI track's output to DZ. Then when you play the song, whenever that MIDI note appears in the track, it will trigger that drum sound.
I think you can only have 2 clips in each instance of DZ, so you'd need a lot of DZs in the song for a whole drum set.
Robo, I think his MIDI set only has MIDI out, no MIDI in, so he can't playback through it.
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Robomusic
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 17:40:01
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Don't most midi drum kits have a headphone or audio output, most of them i have played did. So my question is why not record that, and it will have a live feel and sound. If he records the midi output then he will get the end result quantized, and thereby very un-human feeling.
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57Gregy
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 19:02:28
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He certainly could do that. The brain does have audio outs, from what I read about the kit a few days ago.
I thought you meant record the MIDI, correct any imperfections, then play it out to the module and back in to MC.
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jdscott
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/10 20:52:25
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Yeah, we're looking to record it in MIDI, so we can do some editing if need be later. I like the DZ idea. He loves his DW kit and how it sounds. We would love to record those sounds and use them as the trigger notes. Any suggestions on mics? All we have are Sure SM58's and a Berhenger studio cond. mic. Either should do the job, I would think.
I hate it that the Simmons "brain" is bypassed as soon as we hook into MC4. It has some great sounds. We should have gone Aleses...
Thanx to you all again for your help and creativity.
JD Scott
JD Scott Music Creator 6, M-Audio 2496 card (Upgrading to M-Audio 1010!) B.C. Rich, Ibanez guitars, Yamaha basses, Berhenger Xynex 1202 board Peavey and Roland amps Rolling Rock mood filter
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RobertB
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Re:More, yet boring, MIDI questions...
2010/02/13 09:44:30
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fwiw, the Alesis DM6 doesn't have MIDI In either. You need to spend a lot more to get that. Without it, we can't trigger the module from a MIDI track.
The DZ idea would be workable, but cumbersome. There are a number of free drum samplers (check KVR-Audio and Gersic.com) that are designed for the task. They are set up so you can load your own samples, and don't have to fight with mapping and such.
It's true that most of the commercial drum programs come with a bunch of loops and patterns, but you don't have to use them.
What you're really after is better sounding samples, and to that end, I think something like EZ Drummer($149) would be a worthwhile investment.
You have a lot of versatility and control over the individual drums.
Cakewalk's Session Drummer 2 is also available for download at $49. It's not as elaborate as EZD, but you still have a lot of control, and it responds nicely to velocity. You can listen to some samples at the Cakewalk store. I'm using the DM6 to trigger SD2 at the moment.
You should be able to record the audio out from your Module and MIDI out at the same time. This might allow for some interesting mix-and -match on your edits. I would suggest playing to the project metronome in MC to make edits easier.
The MIDI out is not quantized, but real-time, so the MIDI notes will be in sync with the audio.
That's all I've got for now.
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