spacey
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Morning rant...
about wood. I awoke just a little upset that with all the trouble many may be facing in the future as well as what is currently happening- which I won't go into details- with wood. What must have brewed while sleeping is knowing that our tonewoods are being manufactured into flooring. Well I think that is just stupid and want to urge others to give that some thought before purchasing hardwood/tonewood flooring. Please don't be part of the problem...especially on the "stupid" part. And spread the word to your friends and neighbors.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 8:44 AM
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What's worse it's all about current fads. In 10 years time it will all get ripped up to make way for the next trend. Not only that it is so thinly sliced to make it cheap that there is nothing worth reclaiming at the end of it's life. What's left is not even fit for burning.
post edited by Jonbouy - October 11, 11 8:46 AM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Beagle
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 9:12 AM
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spacey about wood. I awoke just a little upset that with all the trouble many may be facing in the future as well as what is currently happening- which I won't go into details- with wood. What must have brewed while sleeping is knowing that our tonewoods are being manufactured into flooring. Well I think that is just stupid and want to urge others to give that some thought before purchasing hardwood/tonewood flooring. Please don't be part of the problem...especially on the "stupid" part. And spread the word to your friends and neighbors. would you care to elaborate which floorings we should avoid? not being a "guitarist" I didn't even know there was an issue, let alone how to help prevent the issue if I were to buy flooring in the future.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 9:15 AM
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Jon the older I get the more I believe that man is getting dumber. I just can't believe we're on a timing record of 2011 years and witness this and many other actions of complete idiocy by so many that it is a market. If anybody reading this has hardwood/tonewood floors....I hope they warp so bad you get sea-sick walking through your house. Yes, I mean it. Beag you were writing as I was...I'm at work and will get a list. I'm not an expert but I know enough to create a list that will astound you.
post edited by spacey - October 11, 11 9:18 AM
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Beagle
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 9:20 AM
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 9:44 AM
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Well here's a very good start. Click on the drop-down in the middle. There are only a few woods that I'm not certain about...Beech, Birch, Boire, Cedar- although I believe Spanish luthiers use it- Elm, Cottonwood, Teak.... and the easiest way to know....google the name of the wood before buying it because really, how many are going to remember all these many types?-especially when they're not building with them most everyday. But more than half of what they offer is used to make instruments. You are going to see and probably recognize the most common used in commercial guitar building- Ash, Ebony, Walnut, Maple, Mahogany..etc. Currently many luthiers are quitting or trying new woods. Between the stupid things we choose to purchase (like tonewoods for flooring) - illegal timber practice, Stupid laws...like we just seen our Government pull with Gibson and once before if one can recall.... BIG problem and urge people to wake up. We're blowing it and ignorance is going to be a big reason....that's as sad as it gets. Well I don't want to harp...to much of a guitarist for that. Hope this helps.
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Beagle
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 10:17 AM
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Ok, but I guess I'm being dense - maybe if I ask the question a different way: are you saying ALL wood flooring should be boycotted because it can be used for making guitars? or are there some woods which are better "tonewoods" and some which are better flooring woods?
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Rain
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 10:33 AM
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We don't "learn" until it hits us in the face. And then we don't learn the lesson which we could use to evaluate other similar situations which present themselves in the future - we just come to the conclusion that this particular situation was bad, but move on to something else w/ the same behavior. The concepts just never seem to make it to our reasoning. In my lifetime alone, I've learned enough to be more responsible than that. You'd think that as a specie, we'd have enough experience to know better. Apparently not. There's one South Park episode which nailed it for me. They all go nuts about shopping at Wal Mart and eventually decide to burn it down because they realize how bad it is. Lesson learned? Of course not, they all move over to the next store and start repeating the same mistakes there again, making that the next huge Wal Mart type of store. The show ends with that store burning too and them presumably moving over to the next one... We have no excuse. We should know better.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Jonbouy
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 10:44 AM
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Beagle Ok, but I guess I'm being dense - maybe if I ask the question a different way: are you saying ALL wood flooring should be boycotted because it can be used for making guitars? or are there some woods which are better "tonewoods" and some which are better flooring woods? Any extravagant/fancy wood used as a temporary/short term floor covering is a waste. There are buildings round here made in the 12th century with the original timber floors in place if the buildings were demolished all that timber could still be recycled. Conversely all these 'laminate' style floors just consume timber and often are replaced just for the sake of a remodel after a few years as tastes change. None of that material can be re-used in any way, it gets dumped. 3 or 4 refits like that over 20 years equal that same amount timber that has been in the same place for 8 or 9 centuries and yet still can be re-used. Most forests are fast becoming much less dense than us it seems...
post edited by Jonbouy - October 11, 11 10:51 AM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 10:49 AM
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Beagle Ok, but I guess I'm being dense - maybe if I ask the question a different way: are you saying ALL wood flooring should be boycotted because it can be used for making guitars? or are there some woods which are better "tonewoods" and some which are better flooring woods? No I'm not saying ALL wood and didn't say that. I said tonewood is being used for flooring. Tonewoods are not only being used for flooring but have been used and still being used to build furniture as well. If I may suggest an easy way for those that may not know; Google the type of wood in question and google will list many places that will give one information about the wood. Information of interest is "What is it used for".....if one sees "tonewood" or "instrument" listed...well there ya go. I've also seen "furniture" listed and "tonewood" left out and may want to continue investigation at another link. Not all hardwood is tonewood. Not all tonewood is hardwood. There are many species. One has to investigate. One could very easily ask a luthier. ....honey, I really like this Zebra wood flooring....let's ask a luthier if it's a tonewood.....Now that is a great start IMO for folks.....ASK before you buy. It's not going to take long to get the info. Google before you buy. Wiki the wood before you buy......easy. One doesn't have to remember much other than; two key words..."musical instruments" and/or "tonewoods". Although that is changing...as I mentioned the problem has become so bad that luthiers are looking for alternative woods that may be reclassified as tonewood someday. Sick. Don't be part of the problem. Ask before you buy...and I don't mean the sales person.
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Beagle
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:00 AM
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ok, Michael I understand now and will certainly do that before any hardwood floor purchase. thanks JB for your 2 pence as well - very informative.
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Randy P
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:03 AM
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I guess now would be a bad time to post pictures of my new living room floor i installed using Les Paul and Strat bodies and necks. It doesn't look all that great, and it cost a small fortune, but it sounds awesome when I walk across it wearing my red stiletto high heels. Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:13 AM
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rsp@odyssey.net I guess now would be a bad time to post pictures of my new living room floor i installed using Les Paul and Strat bodies and necks. It doesn't look all that great, and it cost a small fortune, but it sounds awesome when I walk across it wearing my red stiletto high heels. Randy Ash, Alder, Mahogany and maybe Walnut...Basswood and Maple. Ebony, Maple, Ebony and Rosewood if you kept the necks on them.... Fortunately the more beautiful woods aren't "cost effective" for "them"....and assuming you didn't use any of the finer custom made models. All that trouble and didn't even get the high-end flooring.....LOL.
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Randy P
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:23 AM
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spacey rsp@odyssey.net I guess now would be a bad time to post pictures of my new living room floor i installed using Les Paul and Strat bodies and necks. It doesn't look all that great, and it cost a small fortune, but it sounds awesome when I walk across it wearing my red stiletto high heels. Randy Ash, Alder, Mahogany and maybe Walnut...Basswood and Maple. Ebony, Maple, Ebony and Rosewood if you kept the necks on them.... Fortunately the more beautiful woods aren't "cost effective" for "them"....and assuming you didn't use any of the finer custom made models. All that trouble and didn't even get the high-end flooring.....LOL. WAT? The guy at Guitar Center assured me these were all made from the finest tonewoods in the world! I even took advantage of the advice he gave me regarding using melted down Monster Cables as an adhesive so I would get the full spectrum of tonality from the wood. Randy
http://www.soundclick.com/riprorenband The music biz is a cruel and shallow money trench,a plastic hallway where thieves & pimps run free and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. Hunter S. Thompson
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drewfx1
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:32 AM
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I think it's self serving to think we as musicians should avoid a particular wood because it's "tonewood". If a wood is endangered or in limited supply, it's use should be avoided, regardless of its other uses. Whether it's also used for building musical instruments or something entirely different doesn't matter.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:39 AM
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Man don't feel bad Randy....I've heard worse about Guitar Center. You should have asked first...and not a sales person...I told ya so... Custom or bust.
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Beagle
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:42 AM
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rsp@odyssey.net spacey rsp@odyssey.net I guess now would be a bad time to post pictures of my new living room floor i installed using Les Paul and Strat bodies and necks. It doesn't look all that great, and it cost a small fortune, but it sounds awesome when I walk across it wearing my red stiletto high heels. Randy Ash, Alder, Mahogany and maybe Walnut...Basswood and Maple. Ebony, Maple, Ebony and Rosewood if you kept the necks on them.... Fortunately the more beautiful woods aren't "cost effective" for "them"....and assuming you didn't use any of the finer custom made models. All that trouble and didn't even get the high-end flooring.....LOL. WAT? The guy at Guitar Center assured me these were all made from the finest tonewoods in the world! I even took advantage of the advice he gave me regarding using melted down Monster Cables as an adhesive so I would get the full spectrum of tonality from the wood. Randy but you probably didn't tell him that you'd be walking on it in your high heels. it's all your fault for leaving out vital information like that. you probably didn't mention the pet ostrich or Elvis either.
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timidi
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:51 AM
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what's all the hub-bub. wood floors aren't wood anymore? They're plastic.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 11:52 AM
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drewfx1 I think it's self serving to think we as musicians should avoid a particular wood because it's "tonewood". If a wood is endangered or in limited supply, it's use should be avoided, regardless of its other uses. Whether it's also used for building musical instruments or something entirely different doesn't matter. That's a completely different topic. The topic wasn't about endangered or limited supply. It's about best practice of using what's available. So please don't lead this thread into The Lacy Act. And specifically....you are the only one that has stated "we as musicians should avoid a particlular wood because it's "tonewood". Why would a luthier avoid tonewoods?? You think it's self serving to make a reasoning...an educated purchase.. specific woods for specific uses isn't self serving....it's smart. My point is we shouldn't be using tonewoods for flooring. Simply, it's stupid to do that. There's plenty of wood for flooring that doesn't effect the building of instruments.
post edited by spacey - October 11, 11 12:00 AM
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drewfx1
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 12:19 AM
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spacey drewfx1 I think it's self serving to think we as musicians should avoid a particular wood because it's "tonewood". If a wood is endangered or in limited supply, it's use should be avoided, regardless of its other uses. Whether it's also used for building musical instruments or something entirely different doesn't matter. That's a completely different topic. The topic wasn't about endangered or limited supply. It's about best practice of using what's available. So please don't lead this thread into The Lacy Act. And specifically....you are the only one that has stated "we as musicians should avoid a particlular wood because it's "tonewood". Why would a luthier avoid tonewoods?? You're misreading me here. That wasn't what I meant. You think it's self serving to make a reasoning...an educated purchase.. specific woods for specific uses isn't self serving....it's smart. My point is we shouldn't be using tonewoods for flooring. Simply, it's stupid to do that. There's plenty of wood for flooring that doesn't effect the building of instruments. And my point is that just because a wood isn't a "tonewood" doesn't mean it's an appropriate wood for flooring either. Hence the self serving comment.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 12:43 AM
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drewfx1 spacey drewfx1 I think it's self serving to think we as musicians should avoid a particular wood because it's "tonewood". If a wood is endangered or in limited supply, it's use should be avoided, regardless of its other uses. Whether it's also used for building musical instruments or something entirely different doesn't matter. That's a completely different topic. The topic wasn't about endangered or limited supply. It's about best practice of using what's available. So please don't lead this thread into The Lacy Act. And specifically....you are the only one that has stated "we as musicians should avoid a particlular wood because it's "tonewood". Why would a luthier avoid tonewoods?? You're misreading me here. That wasn't what I meant. You think it's self serving to make a reasoning...an educated purchase.. specific woods for specific uses isn't self serving....it's smart. My point is we shouldn't be using tonewoods for flooring. Simply, it's stupid to do that. There's plenty of wood for flooring that doesn't effect the building of instruments. And my point is that just because a wood isn't a "tonewood" doesn't mean it's an appropriate wood for flooring either. Hence the self serving comment. Ok...I've sure misread others before....I was thinking maybe you had Purpleheart flooring that warped... I think you make an excellent point. There is much that needs to be considered when we make decisions with our natural resources...and not only "them" but lets stay on topic. Wood is very expensive, a natural resource and we are having issues because we haven't been handling the use of it intelligently. My biggest point is we are still being stupid. I mean all peoples. So I'll back up Drew....there are more issues one should consider when purchasing wood products and we should all take the time to get informed so we can make the smart decision. If this leads to more than the topic of tonewood used as flooring and lead to helping us get wiser with the knowledge of endangered trees....all the better for us....and I'm glad your reply wasn't about you being upset because you have warped tonewood flooring...geeze Randys' bad move was enough.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 2:31 PM
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timidi what's all the hub-bub. wood floors aren't wood anymore? They're plastic. Plastic wood is fine for floors, plus the fact that rug sledding is more exciting on them. I've clocked over 78 mph on polished plastic laminate before. Yes, and that was whilst wearing competition standard 5" patent stilettos (red). Anyway after some bad experiences with laminate floors I've started to prefer real tiger skin rugs these days, they are a far more practical flooring and don't contribute to de-forestation at all.
post edited by Jonbouy - October 11, 11 2:35 PM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 2:54 PM
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You people with your "Wood" or "Plastic" floors! I'm going with dirt floors. Never needs vacuuming.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 2:54 PM
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I'm doing my bit, as long as they don't start making guitars out of shag
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drewfx1
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 3:26 PM
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spacey I was thinking maybe you had Purpleheart flooring that warped... Well as a matter of fact, my dining room set is rosewood. And my kitchen does have maple cabinets (and the kitchen set too), so...
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 3:40 PM
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My home was built in the 50's and it's massive timber. Oak flooring. Tongue and groove walls and ceilings. The beams-sub floor look like they were cut yesterday. One can't pull out the nails-they have to be cut....except for the remodeling I've done. Except for our dining room funiture that was made in Peru many years ago and I'm not certain of the wood.....there is no tonewood or endangered wood. I'm not certain of the wood used in constructing our fabriced furniture. If your rosewood dining room set is Bolivian Rosewood, also called Pau Ferro I hope your steak knives slice fretboard size pieces out of it.....and you mail them to me. Just beautiful wood for fretboards and probably not found in any of Randys' flooring. :)
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bapu
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 4:03 PM
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rsp@odyssey.net I guess now would be a bad time to post pictures of my new living room floor i installed using Les Paul and Strat bodies and necks. It doesn't look all that great, and it cost a small fortune, but it sounds awesome when I walk across it wearing my red stiletto high heels. Randy LSHTWCOMN
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craigb
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Morning wood rant...
October 11, 11 4:42 PM
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I like to have a good tonewood floor so when I fall on my face it makes a nice sound. Hey, I have an idea! Why don't we all "inform" the Feds that the flooring people are the ones using "illegal" woods? (Oh my, I just suddenly wondered what they do with all the wood they confiscate! Knowing how bright government employees are, do you think they use them at team-building campfires??!  )
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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drewfx1
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 5:35 PM
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spacey If your rosewood dining room set is Bolivian Rosewood, also called Pau Ferro I hope your steak knives slice fretboard size pieces out of it.....and you mail them to me. Just beautiful wood for fretboards and probably not found in any of Randys' flooring. :) My dining room set isn't Pau Ferro. But I do have a nice piece of it on my Fireburst strat: But sorry you can't have it. And Randy definitely can't have it.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re:Morning rant...
October 11, 11 5:45 PM
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drewfx1 spacey If your rosewood dining room set is Bolivian Rosewood, also called Pau Ferro I hope your steak knives slice fretboard size pieces out of it.....and you mail them to me. Just beautiful wood for fretboards and probably not found in any of Randys' flooring. :) My dining room set isn't Pau Ferro. But I do have a nice piece of it on my Fireburst strat: But sorry you can't have it. And Randy definitely can't have it. OH you RAT!....I had to capture these pics...I had to make myself stop building so I could build my shop and that is exactly why it has been so hard not to start another guitar. I wanted to use that on my next... what a beautiful neck.
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