Karim
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 79
- Joined: 2006/09/27 20:09:16
- Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
- Status: offline
Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
Lately I've been noticing a lot of Auto-Tune botches in songs. I'm not talking about amateur or indy songs, I mean mainstream songs from mainstream artists that were produced by top producers and released by big labels. My question is, what is THE most botched and noticable Auto-Tune correction you've ever heard in a mainstream song? Off the top of my head, I can think of "Angels" by Robbie Williams and "Stay The Same" by Joey McIntire. But I hear these mistakes nearly every day! I couldn't believe that these mistakes made it to an album and eventually to the radio. If there's a perfect way to ruin a song, it is to leave such a mistake in there and assuming that nobody will notice.
|
Clydewinder
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 941
- Joined: 2005/02/28 22:34:40
- Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 13:07:56
(permalink)
|
newfuturevintage
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1848
- Joined: 2004/11/04 20:35:09
- Location: o'land, ca
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 13:55:42
(permalink)
I went through a stage of listening to a lot of Latin American pop on one of the Spanish language local radio stations about a year ago; I can't remember any song they played that was dance hall friendly and didn't have terrible autotuned vocals. Really, really awful stuff.
My inner child is an angry drunk.
|
Silence Please!
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 51
- Joined: 2004/08/08 20:31:25
- Location: Upstate NY - USA
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 13:56:38
(permalink)
How about Panic! At the Disco?
This is a cool CD but wow, auto tune is really blatant especially at the end of "The only Difference..." Oh yeah and "Nails for breakfast... I suppose they may have intended that one as an effect but yikes!
And than there is Audioslave at the end of "Show me how to live"... but at least that is obviously an intentional effect... and sounds pretty cool.
But with Panic! why not just do multiple takes. I've heard worse on the radio too often, but I can't think of them off hand. The autotune effect is awful and ruins songs. It always reminds me of that annoying Cher song (I think it was called "I believe") Yuck!
Silence Please!
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 14:12:51
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Silence Please!
...that annoying Cher song (I think it was called "I believe") Yuck!
Silence Please!
Right, it went Do You Believe in Love (After Love). The worst pivotal moment in pop history, AFAIC. What's hard to imagine is that this robotic, annoying sound has actually caught on as a 'style' (sic) and actually sells. I mean, is this how my dad thought about distorted guitars? At least they (guitars) have tone and expressive melody. But this stuff just grates on my sense of pitch. Oh, and by the way, it's not just the blatantly botched stuff that's annoying, either. If the correction is done in 'Auto' mode (i.e. 'cheap' in studio time), then mistracking of formants is almoist guaranteed. That's because the current algorithms aren't sophisticated enough to know how the singer shifts their formants with expression. The only way to do it right (currently) is to manually adjust the formants along with pitch, but independently from the pitch adjustment. Don't do that, and you'll hear anomalies in the vocal tone, even if the pitch is Casio-keyboard perfect. If you listen closely, you'll hear it... a lot. When you do, you'll know who scripmed on the Auto-tune budget!
|
Karim
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 79
- Joined: 2006/09/27 20:09:16
- Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 14:25:42
(permalink)
Well there is a big difference between using Auto-Tune as an effect and using it to correct out of tune vocals. The effect I can understand, even though it has been used way too much. But to unsuccessfully use it as a pitch correcting tool and leaving your horrible-sounding mistake in the song is beyond me. These people put their songs under the microscope and yet an obviously clumsy attempt to ajust out of tune vocals is completely ignored and released to the public. The second I hear a botched Auto-Tune job, I can't listen to the song again. If the producer/engineer didn't care enough about the song to fix it, then I shouldn't care enough to listen to it.
|
Daddy?!
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2004/01/07 18:24:32
- Location: Chicagoland
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 14:28:20
(permalink)
I'm loving this thread...I can't say that I know of any tunes where they have done any type of pitch correction (I don't really have any interest in what popular radio 'feeds' the people (sheep)). Firstly, I don't believe in using vocal correction (just life after love  ) - if you can't pull it off, please don't try and just re-write your part so that you can sing it comfortably. As for the Cher music - at least that was totally done on purpose, and we all know that Cher CAN sing (and then some) if need be. What's the point of aspiring to be a fine vocalist if they are going to 'fix' your voice continually?
PCAudioLabs Rok Box CR 3, 8GB RAM (DDR3-1600 Dual Channel), AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5GHz (4.1GHz Turbo), RME Fireface 802, Yamaha Motif 7, Mackie HR824, Mackie 1604 VLZ-Pro www.threemachine.com
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 14:41:35
(permalink)
Right, it went Do You Believe in Love (After Love). The worst pivotal moment in pop history, AFAIC. What's hard to imagine is that this robotic, annoying sound has actually caught on as a 'style' (sic) and actually sells. I mean, is this how my dad thought about distorted guitars? At least they (guitars) have tone and expressive melody. But this stuff just grates on my sense of pitch. This is truly weird. Just reading the title I was running through in my mind the point you made about the distorted guitar. Also the idea that this could be an excepted trend. You have a good mind. Outstanding post! I think that It could become very much an every day part of most pop music. If the general public has no problem with it then it will mostly likely continue. Best John
|
Karim
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 79
- Joined: 2006/09/27 20:09:16
- Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:06:17
(permalink)
It has become a style but it's getting old pretty quickly, especially considering that Cher's song was released almost 9 years ago. But this "trend" is a lot less versatile than distorted guitar. Distortion has gone a long way and it will keep changing. The Auto-Tune effect is just one effect than can't really be tweeked beyond "on" and "off". When you tweak it beyond that, it ceases to be an effect and it's just a pitch correction tool. I thought the Auto-Tune effect trend was over until I heard it on the latest album of the purest of today's the old skool musicians....Prince! Of all the people, HE used it! He used it as an effect, mind you (never in a million years would he need or use a pitch correction tool), but still....I was quite disappointed. It's an effect that now sounds way too predictable.
|
newfuturevintage
Max Output Level: -57 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1848
- Joined: 2004/11/04 20:35:09
- Location: o'land, ca
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:17:22
(permalink)
And than there is Audioslave at the end of "Show me how to live"... but at least that is obviously an intentional effect... and sounds pretty cool. ...and if you listen to the pre-mixes leaked before the album was released, (the ones that haven't been steamrollered by Rubin), that effect is there, even though these versions just sound like rough mixes of initial tracks. If you listen closely, to me, it sounds like Chris Cornel is actually hitting his throat to make the mal-autotuned sound.
My inner child is an angry drunk.
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:36:08
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Karim
....Prince! Of all the people, HE used it! He used it as an effect, mind you (never in a million years would he need or use a pitch correction tool), but still....I was quite disappointed. It's an effect that now sounds way too predictable.
So, now it's the Effect Formerly Known As Autotune.
|
gdugan
Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1118
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:24:02
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:41:41
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Karim
Lately I've been noticing a lot of Auto-Tune botches in songs. I'm not talking about amateur or indy songs, I mean mainstream songs from mainstream artists that were produced by top producers and released by big labels. My question is, what is THE most botched and noticable Auto-Tune correction you've ever heard in a mainstream song? Off the top of my head, I can think of "Angels" by Robbie Williams and "Stay The Same" by Joey McIntire. But I hear these mistakes nearly every day! I couldn't believe that these mistakes made it to an album and eventually to the radio. If there's a perfect way to ruin a song, it is to leave such a mistake in there and assuming that nobody will notice.
I'm not familiar with with either of your two examples... Are you saying these are just heavily autotuned or that there are places with glitches or wrong tunings left in? Is the whole song bad or just a couple of spots?
|
yorolpal
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13829
- Joined: 2003/11/20 11:50:37
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:43:30
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Daddy?!
I'm loving this thread...I can't say that I know of any tunes where they have done any type of pitch correction Well, that would be anything you've heard on the radio in the last five years. It's done on quite literaly everything now, sad to say. It's looked on as no different than eq or compression. It's even used on singers that don't need it...just to be sure. So, you're probably more familiar with it than you know.
|
Daddy?!
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2004/01/07 18:24:32
- Location: Chicagoland
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:48:09
(permalink)
Well, that would be anything you've heard on the radio in the last five years. It's done on quite literaly everything now, sad to say. It's looked on as no different than eq or compression. It's even used on singers that don't need it...just to be sure. So, you're probably more familiar with it than you know. Well, 'yorolpal', that's just disenheartening. Would that include Rob Thomas? I've always felt he's one of the better pop crooners out there today.
PCAudioLabs Rok Box CR 3, 8GB RAM (DDR3-1600 Dual Channel), AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5GHz (4.1GHz Turbo), RME Fireface 802, Yamaha Motif 7, Mackie HR824, Mackie 1604 VLZ-Pro www.threemachine.com
|
yorolpal
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13829
- Joined: 2003/11/20 11:50:37
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:53:14
(permalink)
Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised. I was quite serious about it being used even when not needed. It's just become another "sheen" tool in the pop engineer's kit. Sort of, we CAN do it so we will. Disheartening? Yea, probably. But don't them dang vocals sound nice?! 
|
Dave Modisette
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11050
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
- Location: Brandon, Florida
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 15:59:29
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: yorolpal
Dunno, but I wouldn't be surprised. I was quite serious about it being used even when not needed. It's just become another "sheen" tool in the pop engineer's kit. Sort of, we CAN do it so we will. Disheartening? Yea, probably. But don't them dang vocals sound nice?!
Twenty years from now Autotune will be sooooo sophisticated that you won't be able to hear a single artifact at all. At the same time you will be able to find software adapters for sale that will allow you to run Autotune Ver 1.0 so that you can still get that "vintage" Autotune sound like they did back in the good old days. EDIT: I forgot to mention that when this future Autotune version comes out, it will have a water cooled dongle to cool the quad core processor that the dongle has to use to fight crackers.
post edited by Mod Bod - 2006/12/11 16:19:20
|
fetishfrog
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 256
- Joined: 2006/02/20 17:05:27
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:04:25
(permalink)
Twenty years from now?!?! Try now. Waves new pitch correction plug can be made so clean it should be illegal. Seriously, it's scary what sort of low brow nonsense we will have to endure as a result.
|
dudemanjch
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 584
- Joined: 2004/02/05 16:37:14
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:05:37
(permalink)
would you mind citing a specific part on the album? i love it; i know that it has been processed but it doesn't sound bad to me. so perhaps you could give something specific as a reference?
|
Karim
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 79
- Joined: 2006/09/27 20:09:16
- Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:29:45
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: gdugan
ORIGINAL: Karim
Lately I've been noticing a lot of Auto-Tune botches in songs. I'm not talking about amateur or indy songs, I mean mainstream songs from mainstream artists that were produced by top producers and released by big labels. My question is, what is THE most botched and noticable Auto-Tune correction you've ever heard in a mainstream song? Off the top of my head, I can think of "Angels" by Robbie Williams and "Stay The Same" by Joey McIntire. But I hear these mistakes nearly every day! I couldn't believe that these mistakes made it to an album and eventually to the radio. If there's a perfect way to ruin a song, it is to leave such a mistake in there and assuming that nobody will notice.
I'm not familiar with with either of your two examples... Are you saying these are just heavily autotuned or that there are places with glitches or wrong tunings left in? Is the whole song bad or just a couple of spots?
There are glitches left in at a particular part of the song. I don't know if it was left on "auto" mode and the singer went totally out of tune or if a correction was done manually but the singer was so out of tune that it was impossible to fix it properly, but either way there is a specific part in these songs where the Auto-Tuning is obvious and sounds absolutely horrible and I can assure you that it was not intentional. I notice this more and more in songs that were recorded in the past 8 years. I remember hearing a song last week and I noticed the exact same thing, only this mistake was a lot easier to notice because the voice wasn't burried behind the music. It was a pretty simple easy-listening acoustic song that you would never expect an Auto-Tune glitch in. Unfortunately I don't remember which song it was.
|
subtlearts
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2200
- Joined: 2006/01/10 05:59:21
- Location: Berlin
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:38:09
(permalink)
I have an album of Brazilian music, in the 'choro' style, by a wonderful singer named Teresa Christina. It's a´lovely album with wonderful musicianship and she has a stunning voice, warm and rich and sweet and full of personality. But I have trouble listening to it because all I can hear is the too-aggressive vocal tuning which makes it sound robotic and sterile. I've heard this woman sing live, and I find it very hard to believe that any pitch correction was really required; perhaps a subtle touch here and there to push an almost perfect take over the edge, but this has the unmistakeable feeling of an engineer so excited by the amazing new plugin that somehow nobody noticed that the music was being ruined by it. I can't put it down to being an effect because this is acoustic folk music, and otherwise quite pristine and well recorded. It's kind of a tragic album for me.
|
Silence Please!
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 51
- Joined: 2004/08/08 20:31:25
- Location: Upstate NY - USA
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:42:21
(permalink)
I believe I just got the good bye... I believe I just got the good bye look. Nice Signature yorolpal... haven't heard that tune in a while... Now, I'll be signing it on my ride home today... Thanks.
post edited by Silence Please! - 2006/12/11 17:01:07
"Check 1, 2, Sibilance, Sibilance"
|
yorolpal
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13829
- Joined: 2003/11/20 11:50:37
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 16:44:48
(permalink)
You're welcome. After all, I know what happened. I read the book.
|
SilkTone
Max Output Level: -59.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1566
- Joined: 2003/11/10 17:41:28
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 17:51:28
(permalink)
Maroon 5's "She will be loved". Especially the word "Rain". I was going back and forth thinking they either went for the robotic effect, or it was a horriby bad "fix". I am still not sure which one it is, but I am leaning towards an unintentional bad result because other instances of the same phrase is less obviously "fixed".
I must say, I can get 100 times better results with my crappy voice and Melodyne (as far as trying to make fixes non-obvious). I don't understand how the "professional" guys can screw it up so badly. My first few tries with Melodyne resulted in similar robotic sounding vocals, but I quickly learned that less is more.
If you have a good take (but maybe off-pitch a little bit), it is only important to move the average pitch to the desired pitch, not flatten the note completely and in the process remove all of its natural properties. For instance, I stopped looking at the pitch curve and how the notes miss the visual pitch, but instead close my eyes and listen until I find something that sounds out of pitch, then move the whole note as a unit. No note snapping, just move it by a small amount until it sounds right, instead of looking right.
SilkTone
|
losguy
Max Output Level: -20 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5506
- Joined: 2003/12/18 13:40:44
- Location: The Great White North (MN, USA)
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 18:59:15
(permalink)
That's my first line of operations as well, Silk, whenever I use V-Vocal. You nailed it.
|
keith
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3882
- Joined: 2003/12/10 09:49:35
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 20:14:24
(permalink)
This isn't just a pop phenonmenon... I'm hearing it everywhere... or at least I think I know what I'm hearing after knowing what to listen for... By "eveywhere" I mean even in Country crossover stuff (which I don't even like). I've heard it there, and not just "glitches" but just obvious pitch-correction kicking in. There's a point at which the twang goes away and it sounds synthetic... like a $10 robot whore from some B-grade futuristic movie... I mean there's timbre and intonation and vibrato and projection and all that good stuff... then on the other side there's pitch-corrected vocals to the point where all of the former are absent.
|
Dave Modisette
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 11050
- Joined: 2003/11/13 22:12:55
- Location: Brandon, Florida
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 21:02:01
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: keith
This isn't just a pop phenonmenon... I'm hearing it everywhere... or at least I think I know what I'm hearing after knowing what to listen for...
By "eveywhere" I mean even in Country crossover stuff (which I don't even like). I've heard it there, and not just "glitches" but just obvious pitch-correction kicking in. There's a point at which the twang goes away and it sounds synthetic... like a $10 robot whore from some B-grade futuristic movie...
I mean there's timbre and intonation and vibrato and projection and all that good stuff... then on the other side there's pitch-corrected vocals to the point where all of the former are absent.
Yep. It's just like compression. Once you learn what it sounds like, you can easily identify the tell tale sound and when it is over used. Which is pretty often now a days.
|
Karim
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 79
- Joined: 2006/09/27 20:09:16
- Location: Ottawa,Ontario, Canada
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/11 21:17:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: subtlearts
I have an album of Brazilian music, in the 'choro' style, by a wonderful singer named Teresa Christina. It's a´lovely album with wonderful musicianship and she has a stunning voice, warm and rich and sweet and full of personality. But I have trouble listening to it because all I can hear is the too-aggressive vocal tuning which makes it sound robotic and sterile. I've heard this woman sing live, and I find it very hard to believe that any pitch correction was really required; perhaps a subtle touch here and there to push an almost perfect take over the edge, but this has the unmistakeable feeling of an engineer so excited by the amazing new plugin that somehow nobody noticed that the music was being ruined by it. I can't put it down to being an effect because this is acoustic folk music, and otherwise quite pristine and well recorded. It's kind of a tragic album for me.
It really is tragic. Brazilian music is so smooth sounding and it has a charm to it that makes it real. It's like listening to a live band right in front of you, even when it's a studio album. The second I hear Auto-Tune, that's it, I can't listen to it anymore because I either doubt the artist's talent or the engineer's talent. It turns real music into a pre-fabricated and over-produced poppy "let's see what this software does" commercial product. When they try to make it sound TOO perfect, it makes it sound worse than anything!
|
missword
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 202
- Joined: 2005/06/04 02:37:41
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/12 00:46:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Mod Bod
Twenty years from now Autotune will be sooooo sophisticated that you won't be able to hear a single artifact at all. At the same time you will be able to find software adapters for sale that will allow you to run Autotune Ver 1.0 so that you can still get that "vintage" Autotune sound like they did back in the good old days. Actually I think in 20 years, waves will come out with a line called the AT series that will emulate the 'vintage' autotune sound '
post edited by missword - 2006/12/12 01:05:49
|
keith
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3882
- Joined: 2003/12/10 09:49:35
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/12 02:53:39
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: missword
ORIGINAL: Mod Bod
Twenty years from now Autotune will be sooooo sophisticated that you won't be able to hear a single artifact at all.
Actually I think in 20 years, waves will come out with a line called the AT series that will emulate the 'vintage' autotune sound In 20 years Sony will introduce "DAT"... the "De-Auto-Tune" software plugin. It will contain a patented algorithm for restoring audio content ravaged by abusive pitch correction from prior decades. Not missing a beat, Sony will sue itself claiming "DAT" is a registered trademark.
post edited by keith - 2006/12/12 03:12:27
|
iceman2058
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 154
- Joined: 2005/12/04 05:50:21
- Status: offline
RE: Most botched Auto-Tune correction you ever heard?
2006/12/12 06:05:22
(permalink)
hehehehe.....this thread has some great comments in it.....you guys know who you are....
Iceman2058 Vdrums, Edirol, Sonar 6PE (x64) AMD X2 4400+, Gigagyte GA-K8N51GMF-9, WD Raptor 74GB, WD 80GB/Maxtor 250GB, 2GB RAM, XP x64, Edirol UA-101 Music here: Iceman's Drum Page
|