Muddy Distorted Guitar Sound

Hi Guys

This question follows on from something I've alluded to after listening to OHGRANT's cracking heavy metal songs on soundclick: (http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=681564).

Unlike in his songs, my two (highly distorted) rhythm guitar parts, even though hard-panned left and right, sound mushy and lack any distinct clarity.

Although I play both parts with the same guitar, I use completely different settings through my Korg A4 pedal board for each and I never double track the guitars by copying and pasting.

I’ve tried bussing a little of the signal through reverb and delay to the opposite pan for each track and this seems to work fine when only 1 guitar is being played, but the mush returns when I fade the other guitar back in.

I’ve also tried sending in a dry signal and using the onboard distortion effects but this doesn’t help much either.

I’ve studied these pages and read the books but I can’t seem to solve the problem.

Any tips greatfully received (please don’t tell me to buy a new guitar and just in case he’s about – I don’t need a new soundcard thanks Pete)

[I use a custom-made ‘Super Strat’ with three humbuckers wired as a normal Strat; this goes through my board straight to the line-in socket of my computer; I’m using Guitar Tracks Pro 2.0]

Speaking of phase, i think ohgrant's bullsh!t filter is out of phase. Instead of blocking it, he is generating it...

RobertB doesn't own GT3, I don't think he has GT2 either.

rsp = "R"eally "S"tupid "P"erson with a stump fetish ...

Sheesh, go laydown. You are as dumb as a stump, and everyone here knows it.

I don't think he can come up with anything better. I supposed he has reached his creative limits. His "catch phrase" is making HIM look like a dumb stump....

Hi Steve,

I got some good advice on recording heavy guitars a while back, and it seems to hold true - it's very easy to apply too much distortion, and you probably need much less than you think to get the desired effect, especially with more than one guitar. Try rolling some off and see if it helps.

RobertB's advice about 'phasing' issues is good, that can get worse the more distorted the sound.

James

Hi again folks

Tried some of your great ideas and can report a very noticeable improvement in the sound!!

Tried Grant’s and James’s advice to roll back the distortion then burnt a CD to listen back too – results are outstanding – I reckon that because I monitor my recording through either [cheap] speakers or headphones, it must seem that as the sound is crap you ‘need’ more distortion etc!! [I’ve had the same problem when recording my bass into GT – slapped on loads of bottom end coz it sounds so tinny but when it’s on CD it really rattles my hi-fi speakers].

What I’ve done, coz I always seem to use double tracked guitars, is to mess about with the distortion [and EQ] setting in both my pedal board and GT and have saved them as separate patches on my board and I’ve created a read-only ‘template’ in GT with all the guitar/FX/buses settings already there!

Also given Robert B’s nudging a go – works like a dream with a very small push [I even experimented by copying a track with identical settings and panning the two left and right and even these sound distinct from each other]

Guys – thanks again

Remember – TROLLS are good:

T eriffic
R idiculing
O f
L onely
L oser

I can only imagine what it will sound like.

Thanks for the encouragement guys - hopefully won't be too long before I got something to upload, trouble is as I've said before I ain't online at home and there's a limit to what I can do from a public library terminal [I'll start badgering a few of my mates who are on the web!!]

Forgot to mention I've also tried EQ tips from the Beagle-man - brilliant stuff!! [Link:- http://www.beaglesound.com/eq_beagle.htm]

If I may just add another thing I've sorta worked out myself [stop me if this thread is getting boring!!] I've noticed that all my guitar parts appear in the 'Edit' window of GT in stereo - with two waveforms in each track.

I use the headphone [stereo] socket on my ancient Korg A4 pedal board to input to GT and the signal is in genuine stereo - the 'Chorus' effect [which I always have on] has a setting that sends the clean guitar signal through one channel and the processed signal through the other - this must explain why GT is storing the two waveforms separately [stay with me!!] - I concluded that these stereo signals must be all over the stereo field , even if I’ve panned them to one side of it in GT.

I’ve mixed down a couple of stereo tracks to mono and it seems to have cleaned up the sound even more - in addition to the great advice I’ve received in this thread [the mush has now left the building!] – I’ll record a few brand new 'test' tracks which I’ll send in mono from my board and keep you posted.

I’m sure I’ve read here somewhere that you can get GT to record in stereo or mono or on either left or right channel but I’ve misplaced my manual – any more advice as to how to do this gratefully received.

Thanks again folks

PS: When I do send you something to listen to it won’t have my voice on it coz I’m tone deaf [I’ll get my mate SidStrummerUK to perform vocal duties] – anywho, I’m wondering whether or not to ask PistolPete if I should upgrade my vocal cords to a ‘Rob Halford’ set or just moan to their manufacturer [suspect he’s been a bit busy over Easter!!]

Thanks ohgrant - my version is GT Pro 2 but your info got me on the right track [no pun intended] - I found it at the bottom of the track strips in the mix window [options are: left, right, stereo or off] - shoulda remembered it coz it's got my soundcard name on it!!

It's just gonna be easier now to import audio in mono instead of in stereo and then having to convert each track back to mono.

Cheers again - Steve

zeypxun,
You mean to say that you haven't uploaded your worst songs? YIKES!!!!

I've heard your tunes. That's scary!!!!

Thanks for your input ZEYPXUN

What got me asking the original question was when I’d listened to some of the stuff OHGRANT had uploaded [http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=681564], I was impressed with the overall sound quality and in particular the way the distorted guitars sound quite distinctive in the mix; when I double track [very] distorted guitars, although recorded separately with completely different settings, they seemed to merge into one mushy sound, almost as if I’d just recorded one guitar in mono.

I’ve tinkered around with almost all the ideas the guys here have advised me to do and the sound is much better, with both guitars sounding separate in the mix.

With regard to compression, I send my signal straight to GT from my Korg A4 pedalboard [so old it runs on coal] and it’s already heavily compressed – I will however try the compressor built into GT and see if that helps even more.

Also what might be a problem is that I can only run GT in 16 bit as it starts dropping out when I change to 24; although this setting seems fine for non-distorted guitar parts.

As soon as I’m able I fully intend to upload some stuff and really appreciate you taking an interest in listening.

PS – As far as the Pistol man is concerned, I’ve given up replying to anything he says – he’s even changed his avatar since I copied it!! – anywho, what do you think of my new one? – I really hope Randy [RSP] approves. [If you need a good read, try: http://fr.bookbutler.com/do/bookSearch?pageNr=1&showMore=true&sortBy=salesrank&searchFor=ISBN%3A+0+099+28758+7&searchBy=keyword&searchIn=uk&shipTo=gb&amountIn=gbp&zip=]

Take it easy guys, and thanks again ZEYPXUN for your input.

I'll give it a go Robert, I don't get any drop outs at all at 16bit, should I try your idea at 24 bit?

Just to add, I'm just so pleased that virtually ALL the things I've been advised to do in this thread really do work and have 'cleaned up' my sound immensely!!

PS I know you are quite capable of defending yourself against the drivel the stump gives you about GT3 but I've just come across from the 'VIA Envy 24 Audio Woes' thread where I've given him a bit of stick about it - hope you like the proverb!!

Yes - they're all recorded at 16 bit - I tend to make back ups and use destructive editing to apply effects to keep the CPU happy!

ZEYPXUN - thanks for the reply [I apologize to you and RobertB for 'disappearing' when I was in this thread on 4/21 - problem is I only get on the web at my local library and when your time's up it just shuts down]

Anyway, I've only ever recorded at the 16 bit setting and haven't had a problem - I'd only ever listened back at 16 bit but when I tried this at 24 bit, the program didn't drop-out as such - the CPU level went to 100% and the program froze up completely.

I've never had a drop-out when recording a track while listening to what I've already recorded - [often 11 or 12 tracks already down] but I've never tried recording at 24 bit - I'll give it a go though.

I apologize if I'm stumbling around here guys but I'm OK with the basics of my GT [Pro vers 2] and maybe I'm trying to do too much too quick but I do want to improve my recording techniques so if some of my questions seem a little naive, please forgive me!!