Multiple MIDI Channel Question

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HumbleNoise
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2010/02/28 10:39:19 (permalink)

Multiple MIDI Channel Question

I have an XV-88 and it's what I use as my MIDI controller and overall it's a great piece of kit. But I have a question about MIDI channels and it comes up when I use something like Garritan Personal Orchestra's (GPO) Aria Player.

In the Aria Player, when assigning Instrument tracks (there is room for 16 different instruments) there is also a place to choose which MIDI channel to assign to that instrument. I can only use MIDI Omni no matter the synth and no matter the situation. If I choose any specific MIDI channel I'll get no sound.

My thinking is that it's probably a setting in the XV-88 but not sure of that either.

The GPO advice is to set each instrument to its own MIDI channel but to be honest I can't see the advantage to that either but would at least like the option to see what other options that opens up.

Any ideas?

Are you able to assign separate MIDI channels for separate instruments? Are there advantages?

Thanks

Humbly Yours

Larry

Sonar X2 x64
MAudio 2496
Yamaha MG 12/4
Roland XV-88
Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
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    Philip
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 11:36:17 (permalink)
    Reboot your computer and your Controller (that fixed my *moody* Fantom X8 controller yesterday).

    You might-should be able to assign MIDI channels and banks based on the XV-88 documentation.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

    Raised-Again 3http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12307501
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    drewfx1
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 12:08:45 (permalink)
    You need to assign the midi channel the XV-88 transmits on to what your SW is set to respond to. Globally (if not using Zones to split the keyboard - see below), the XV-88 usually is set to transmit on channel 1 in Patch/Rhythm mode, but you can set this to whatever you like.

    The XV-88 keyboard can also be divided into what Roland calls "Zones", which is used internally to control the different performance parts in Performance mode. Each zone can be set in terms of key range and Midi channel (among other things). This way you can, say, create a split keyboard where below middle C you play a bass line on one midi channel, and above middle C you play a different sound on a different midi channel.

    drewfx
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    HumbleNoise
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 12:18:44 (permalink)
    I think you're both right that somewhere in the bowels of the XV-88 lies the answer but Zones seems like it would be XV-88 specific and I've rebooted a thousand times but as you suggest it's probably somewhere in the docs.

    Maybe a better question. Is running separate instruments in a separate MIDI channel any better than simply using MIDI OMNI which seems to work OK?

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

    Sonar X2 x64
    MAudio 2496
    Yamaha MG 12/4
    Roland XV-88
    Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
    NVidia 9800 GTX
    Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
    #4
    Philip
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 13:48:52 (permalink)
    HumbleNoise,

    If you're hoping to use multiple XV-88 patches (Romplers/Samplers) as your 'MIDI's,
    1) Methinks, you'd typically learn to assign 'several' dedicated MIDI channels or else you'd only use your MIDI for one XV-88 patch at a time ... bouncing them to audio and such (which is fine for me).

    2) You'd 'probably' issue sysX commands for Roland (search google) to enable instrument banks (which you've probably done already).  There is the window for that in the View Menu.

    3) But DimPro Synths are tidier and oft as good, IMHO; EastWest Quantum Leap synths are my fav samplers of late.  I don't use my 'reknowned' Roland SRX-6 patches anymore ... due to laptop enhancements with the i7 multi-core.

    4) Hopefully, a MIDI XV-88 guru will chime in and help clear the clouds.

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

    Raised-Again 3http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12307501
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 14:05:13 (permalink)
    Your controller can send on OMNI OR a specific channel.  On Omni.... any active synth will see the signal and pick it up. It's like shouting a command in a room...everyone can hear....If you select a specific output channel... the synth channel must also be set to recieve on that same channel  or you have no communication and no sound. more like whispering in someone's ear....only that one person hears it.

    I set my keyboard to channel 6 (transmit)... so when I set up a synth in my platform.... I MUST set the input via track properties (in the platform...not the synth) to channel 6.

    Now.... If I use a multi channel synth, I have to set each channel of the synth one at a time to channel 6 to record data for THAT specific channel. For example...I want bass in channel one of the synth.... I set the input to receive midi channel 6 and play and record....
    then I want strings in channel 2 of the synth.... I set channel 2 to receive on midi channel 6...AND I need to set synth channel 1 input to NONE...or it will continue to see and receive the data I want sent to the strings channel in the synth.
    simply repeat this for the remaining channels in the synth.

    I have some info on my website... MC4 pages on doing this with TTS...also a 16 channel synth that many people use. Once you understand the concept.... it's actually pretty simple and cool.


    I mentioned that I set my keyboard to channel 6. This was intentional, any channel would have worked....I decided on 6.... this was to avoid the omni signal that would be picked up by any "open" synth channel when I was still using TTS.... I have become used to it now.... and it works extremely well. Most of my synths are one channel synths, and I still need to be aware of shutting off the inputs on the "resting" synths in a project lest they chime in with unwanted notes.

    Hope this helped.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2010/02/28 14:07:17

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    #6
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/02/28 14:59:00 (permalink)
    VERY helpful and I appreciate the time it takes to post replies. I think it's time to develop a strategy like you've suggested Guitar. It'll take be a bit to wrap my head around the concept.

    Philip. the XV-88 works great for multiple patches running in different tracks (bounce to audio as you suggest) and there's still a couple of old XV patches and an SRX Piano card that I'll still use once and a while but I seem to be gravitating to the soft synths as well, like Dim Pro, which pretty much has everything.

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

    Sonar X2 x64
    MAudio 2496
    Yamaha MG 12/4
    Roland XV-88
    Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
    NVidia 9800 GTX
    Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/03/01 02:08:26 (permalink)

    I think it's time to develop a strategy like you've suggested Guitar.

     
    Another strategy that I thought was actually the most common:
     
    Set up a MIDI track for each channel of the soft synth and set the output channel (and starting bank and patch if you want) of each track accordingly. This is known as using a "forced" MIDI channel; no matter what channel the incoming MIDI or recorded MIDI is on, the output will be forced to the channel you assign.
     
    By default, SONAR echos the input of the currently active (highlighted) track. So you can set them all to OMNI In, and no matter what channel your controller is transmitting on, you will only hear the sound on the track/channel that is currently active. And even though the MIDI events are recorded with the same channel on the different tracks, the forced output channel keep all the parts separate.
     
    Tha advantage of having separate channels and tracks for each part/ instrument is that you can control panning, volume, transposition, bank, patch, etc. individually for each part. If the synth offers multiple outputs, you can also apply different effects to different parts adn get more control over output levels.
     
    Personally, in addition to using multiple tracks and forced channels, I like to either change my controller's output channel before recording or interpolate the data after recording so that the channel of the recorded events is correct, just to ensure that I don't get parts irreparably munged together if I make a mistake when copying phrases between tracks. I also like to disable the Always Echo Current MIDI Track setting in Global Options, and set input echoing manually so I have control over what's echoed regardless of what is selected.
     
     
     
    post edited by brundlefly - 2010/03/01 02:11:05
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    HumbleNoise
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/03/01 23:49:25 (permalink)
    I've tried multiple strategies but cannot get anything but channel 1 and/or OMNI to transmit any MIDI data or sound. Using OMNI I can assign different outputs to different audio tracks (using the ARIA Player for instance) but every attempt to use more than one MIDI channel results in no input/output.

    I have a feeling the ability to use more than one MIDI channel at the same time is explained somewhere in the XV-88 manual but after reading that again I remember why I stopped using it for anything other than a MIDI controller. Navigating that thing is mind numbing to say the least.

    I've got a couple more attempts left in me then I'll probably revert to the OMNI track assign method.

    Thanks very much for the help. I always learn something.

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

    Sonar X2 x64
    MAudio 2496
    Yamaha MG 12/4
    Roland XV-88
    Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
    NVidia 9800 GTX
    Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
    #9
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/03/02 00:12:29 (permalink)
    I found a way to send to different MIDI channels from the keyboard but no easy way to switch between them other than switching the keyboard which is very awkward and I as of yet can't find a benefit. It's also not a fluid change of channels and doesn't respond how I'd expect it to but that could be user error.

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

    Sonar X2 x64
    MAudio 2496
    Yamaha MG 12/4
    Roland XV-88
    Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram
    NVidia 9800 GTX
    Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Multiple MIDI Channel Question 2010/03/02 08:23:23 (permalink)
    Oh yeah.... changing the channel on many keyboards is not easy.... I have to dig out the manual ... but since I have it set at 6.... and that works for me, I really have no reason to change it again unless I decide I don't like 6.


    The main thing to remember is this.... the keyboard will transmit on a specific channel..... for a midi sequencer (cakewalk) to read it, the sequencer must be set to the same channel (receiving ) and if you have a multi channel synth, that synth's channel must also be set to the same midi channel to properly differenciate the signals.

    NOTE: for someone getting started in synths, I do not recommend starting with a multi channel synth ...even though TTS comes packaged with many cake platforms.... it can be very confusing to set it up...which is why I have the 3 instrument example on my website...to try to make it easy for newcomers to midi to grasp the concepts of working with the multi-channel synths.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
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