Multi-tracking without a metronome

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MondoArt
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2012/04/04 13:41:02 (permalink)

Multi-tracking without a metronome

Using X1 Producer, and I'm working with a singer-songwriter who plays piano and sings.  Her songs are fairly dynamic, with tempo changes, pauses, etc, so it doesn't make sense to record her to a click.

So she lays down a MIDI piano track freely.  Then I record her singing and small guitar parts here and there.  Her timing is pretty good, only problems occur after a "hold" when the piano comes back in and she needs to sing at the same time.

Anyway, I'm also adding things like bass and drums (all MIDI on my keyboard).  So I figured on re-aligning the ruler to match her piano part by using the "Shift-N" function - insert meter, so I can quantize the drums and bass parts.  I bounce the MIDI piano to audio, set my snap to transients, and set the downbeat for each measure.  Tempo map updates as I go along, everything seems fine.

Now the problem - vocal and guitar parts that are already recorded begin to slip out of sync.  It get worse the further along in the song it is.  Why does this happen?  I figure if I'm changing the ruler, and I have a vox clip at measure 58, it should remain at measure 58, even if the location of measure 58 changes.  Am I wrong?

Would it help it I bounced each audio track as a single clip starting at measure 1 before I change the ruler?  Or should I be doing the ruler right after the piano part is recorded?

Thanks!
post edited by MondoArt - 2012/04/04 14:09:57
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3 Replies Related Threads

    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Multi-tracking without a metronome 2012/04/04 14:48:56 (permalink)
    If I'm understanding you correctly this video may help. Once you've edited the internal clip map you need to apply that tempo to the project using measure as resolution to get an accurate tempo map. If you just extract the average tempo there will be variations which might be the reason for the drift.
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    TobyC
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    Re:Multi-tracking without a metronome 2012/04/04 17:38:28 (permalink)
    I use this method all the time to get a genuine live feel. I usually track midi on keys or V-Drums and use the midi tracks to set the tempo map.
     
    It's time consuming but I've got the best results by going through the midi tracks and setting the 'now' time using Shift N, as you say, at the start of each bar. The audio is completely unaffected.
     
    The only issues I've had is at the very start of the process. I've found that it helps having a rough guess at the starting tempo and setting this as the default, and then sliding all the tracks over so that the first beat is at the start of bar 2 on Sonar, i.e. there is a gap of one bar. This seems to help.
     
    I hope this helps. Let me know if I can help further.
    Best wishes,
    Toby

    TobyC

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    MondoArt
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    Re:Multi-tracking without a metronome 2012/04/08 20:42:50 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies guys.

    FBB, I did see your video before, and the first song I tried editing the clip map, had the same problem as I described above...clips that didn't start at measure 1 drifted in time later on in the song.

    So, I bounced all the vox and guitar tracks down to single tracks for each, so each track then had only 1 clip.  Did the "now time" technique, and voila...everything stayed in time.

    Odd still, though, that my friend then needed to make some edits to her piano part, which meant going back to the MIDI, which now had drifted in time.  So it meant bouncing just the few corrected measures, and nudging it back into place.
    #4
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