AnsweredMusic Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums

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TCRGuitar
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2013/11/23 14:01:19 (permalink)

Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums

Hi all,
 
Im new to the forum...this is my first post.  Ive had Music Creator 6 for about 2 years.  Not being a music producer by trade, Ive had to really dig and figure out the nuances with tutorials etc.
 
Question 1:
My problem right now is after I figure out how to actually load an SI drums beat into specific track, I tried to record my guitar in beat with the drum beat...the problem is that when I arm the track and then hit record it simply records the si drum beat again and not my guitar...probably something simple Im not figuring, but I cant figure it out...any suggestions?
 
Question 2:
I recently subscribed to Dooley drums and Simon Phillips drums downloads just to have an extra variety of beats.  But for the life of me I cannot figure out how to import those beats into a track on Music Creator 6.  I try to drag it and it wont let me.  Is there another way to import them?  I was told that music creator only accepts up to 32 bit...well the beats I am importing are only 16 and 24 bit...so they should be compatible?
 
I can only hear the drums when i select driver mode MME-32 bit, the problem is when i go to record my guitar I have switch the driver mode back to WDM/KS...when I do that I cant hear the drum beats...lol.  Is there a way to select a driver mode that I can hear the drumbeats and record my guitar to those beats without switching back and forth to the drivers?
 
Any help is much appreciated...thank you.
 
Troy
 
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/23 14:07:15
#1
Guitarhacker
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/24 07:32:46 (permalink)
Welcome.
 
Be sure the input to the track is set to the guitar source input only.  I think there's something in the windows volume control window that needs to be checked or unchecked  but I'm not sure about that.
 
on the beats.... they should be wave file loops. Simply know where they are on the computer. In MC click on a track to select it and highlight it. Have the now maker where you want the loop to go, and select File>Import>audio> and navigate to that file and click it. You should see it import to that track and point you chose. You can drag it around once it's in the track.

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grizwalter
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/24 14:39:15 (permalink)
Hmmm, ok.
Thing 1: I think guitarhacker has it right--has to be an input issue. When you drag the beat from SI-Drums into a track, is it a softsynth track or a midi one though? Make sure a softsynth track's output is set to Master and a midi channel set to the Softsynth and proper midi channel (1 will work without issue as your channel for SI-Drums).
 
Then on the input to the audio track to which you want to record, make sure the input for your preamp or microphone is selected, which should, if you're running things the best (and really only) way, be running into an audio interface before going to your computer. So the interface would be the input.
 
Thing 2: I am not familiar with those subscriptions you mentioned, but again guitarhacker seems to be, so if they are WAV files, then unlike the beats you drag into tracks from SI-Drum Kit, they would need to be dragged into an audio one. Of course, if no track exists in advance, they should be generating one automatically when you drag and drop, so I'm hoping maybe you just didn't think of that and have been trying to drag to a midi/synth track.
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 19:28:50 (permalink)
Thank you both for your replies...I was able to figure out question 2...for whatever reason the audio files needed to  be moved to the library/documents...then they can be dragged to MC...lol...actually my daughter figured that one out.
 
On question 2:  I cannot change the input of my recording device because the only way I can hear the SI drum track is to switch the audio driver to MME-32.  When I switch to MME-32 it will not record my guitar.  To record my guitar I have to switch back to the WDM/KS driver...then I can record with guitar, but I cant hear the drums.
 
I called cakewalk today and he suggested I download the ASIO drivers applicable to my recording device (Fender Mustang III amp).  It still doesnt work...all the asio drives are installed, but it didnt fix the problem.
 
I recently purchased a new computer with a lot more memory that could handle the programs and recordings I need to do...everything was working perfectly until I tried the two questions above.  I just cant figure it out and I dont know where to look to find the answers.  It seems pretty cut and dry...I want to record guitar in beat with the SI drums...I need to be able to hear the drums to do that...lol...how do i do it...Ive spent hours trying to figure this out.
 
Thank you both for your help, but I still have the same problems.
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/26 00:58:39
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grizwalter
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 20:15:31 (permalink)
I must ask this question: Do you use an audio interface to go to and from your computer (for recording and monitoring)? If not, the beginning of your problem is becoming clear.
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 21:34:09 (permalink)
Hi Griz,
 
Not sure what you mean by the audio interface for recording.  I use my Mustang III amp and record thru that...as far as the other audio output, its just Logitech computer speakers with realtek on computer.
 
My Mustang III amp has a USB that connect to computer...when I turn the amp on it registers automatically with MC...so the input changes to "Mustang amp" ....then its as simple as arming the track I want to record on and then pushing the top record button to record my guitar.  I used to be able to hear the other tracks and I would record my guitar to the beat of those tracks.  Now, since I updated my computer, the other tracks have to be in driver mode MME-32 to be heard...and the track I wish to record my guitar on has to be in driver mode WDM/KS...Problem is its one or the other.  I cant (or havnt found a way) have guitar in WDM and the other tracks in MME-32.  Switching the driver mode changes all the tracks to that mode, which Im sure you already know.
 
I really have to get this figured out or the entire program is useless to me and I will have to move on to something else.
 
I really appreciate your help.
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/25 21:40:02
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 21:34:09 (permalink)
Dupe
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/25 21:35:22
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grizwalter
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 23:07:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TCRGuitar 2013/11/26 00:01:49
Ok, well what I mean by how you are interfacing is, what you're using to go from your guitar to the computer directly, then from the computer to the speakers directly. It sounds like you are using no audio interface, and that is almost certainly part of the problem.
 
An audio interface is basically a box which you can run everything into, and everything out of--in other words, one driver for in and out.  For instance, I use a USB Dual Pre which has stereo 1/4" and stereo XLR ins, and the stereo 1/4" and stereo 1/8" to my speakers/headphones. So let's say I'm recording a vocal track. My mic is hooked into the Dual Pre, NOT directly to the computer (even though it does have a USB connection, but I don't do it that way because of the exact problems you're describing), which then runs USB to my computer. Then, to hear the sound back, it runs through that USB back to the Dual Pre and from there I have connected my speakers.
 
So, when I go into preferences in MC6T, I have my Dual Pre as both the Recording and Playback device.
 
Do you follow me on that?
 
I can't absolutely, beyond any shadow of a doubt, say that your problem is in this area, but the switching back and forth of drivers, and the problems you're having getting everything to work together nicely, it is certainly very likely to be that you are setting your input and output devices to two separate things, rather than one "hub," if you will.
 
I hope that makes sense. My bets are on that being the first thing to look at to resolve the problem.
 
If everything I just told you, you already know, I do apologize. But from your description of the setup, there is no Audio Interface in the story--that is, not one that is a two way interface built for this purpose.
 
PS: Here's a video about recording audio. This is in MC6, but it works the same in this regard exactly as MC6T. The first thing he does is show the interface and how it works.
post edited by grizwalter - 2013/11/25 23:14:40
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scook
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/25 23:42:15 (permalink) ☼ Best Answerby TCRGuitar 2013/11/26 00:01:57
Actually the Mustang III amp is an audio interface and that is part of the problem. Because the internal sound chip (another audio interface) does not have a working WDM/KS driver you cannot use it while using the Mustang in WDM/KS recording mode. On the other hand, the Mustang probably does not work in MME. If the Mustang has and ASIO driver (which is a possibility) that won't solve the problem because the ASIO specification only permits one I/O driver at a time.
 
So what to do? The traditional solution would be to use a more conventional audio interface, there are many to choose from at all price levels, and mike up the amp. Another possibility may be using USB connected Mustang with a conventional audio interface in WDM/KS mode. The WDM/KS mode does work with multiple drivers. Finally ASIO4ALL might be able to consolidate your Mustang and internal sound chip drivers into a single "Driver" for MC6. It would cost nothing but time to find out. Keep in mind that you internal sound chip was not designed for DAW use from http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/hwsetup.aspx?dm=mme&man=Realtek
 
Please note: Realtekaudio cards are generally provided with your computer. They are designed for general media playback and, though they will work with Cakewalk software, you would get better performance using a device designed specifically for audio recording.
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 00:14:53 (permalink)
Thank you both for your replies...i think I am beginning to understand and yes my amp is working as the interface...i plug my guitar into the amp....usb from amp to computer...select amp as input...hit record.
 
I understand that getting an interface as you both suggest would definitely solve the problem...it just bothers me that in the past I have been able to record while listening to the other tracks with no problem.  Is it because I have added the SI drums that throws the other tracks out of whack?
 
Previously I have imported drum tracks from an outside source and then recorded my guitar no problem while listening to the track.   I just dont understand what the settings were that allowed me to do that.
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 00:21:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TCRGuitar 2013/11/26 00:36:11
For about a month after getting MC6 I was running things kinda like you are, only I didn't have ANY audio interface. I was direct in to the computer with my mic via usb, and direct out of the computer via headphones/speakers. Bad idea! It worked ok at first, but once I got into doing more stuff, everything started to fall apart. Hard to say what causes things to change, but I suppose we're both lucky it worked at all.
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scook
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 00:26:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TCRGuitar 2013/11/26 00:36:06
It has nothing to do with SI Drums. It is strictly a Record Mode/Driver issue.
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 00:38:05 (permalink)
Well Im going to nip this in the bud now and follow both of yours advice...I am going to purchase an interface.  Do either of you have any suggestions as to which ones I can look into and I will pull them up on line and look at them.
 
I originally stayed away from the extra interfaces because I wanted to try and get the hang of what I was doing...I knew absolutely nothing about anything when I first bought MC6...I still dont know a whole lot, but I have learned a little bit.
 
I was thinking of upgrading to the sonar X3 also...mainly because they offer the tech support.
 
Oh and I agree, griz...it appears like i was just lucky initially.  I even went back into some old tracks that I recorded over and nope they wont do it now...I hit record and it actually records all of the tracks into one.  Lol...i just threw my hands up and said forget this...
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scook
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 01:01:17 (permalink)
A lot of variables go into an interface purchase. Number of input/outputs, mic preamp and driver quality being probably the most important. Does it need to be a MIDI interface too? On a budget? If I have to recommend hardware Focusrite, Roland, Presonus, Motu and RME would be on my short list. For starters the Focusrite 2i2, Roland Duo-Capture EX or Presonus 22VSL are relatively inexpensive solid devices with good drivers. If you need more I/O all the brands mentioned make larger devices too. Keep in mind for best performance most interfaces will want to work in ASIO mode which will prevent you from using the Mustang via USB and monitoring through the audio interface at the same time.
 
If you are thinking about moving to X3. You might want to post for recommendations in that forum. Many more readers, many more opinions.
post edited by scook - 2013/11/26 01:27:48
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 01:05:32 (permalink)
@scook...gotcha...thanks that will give me a few to look at.
 
As far as the amp goes...all i would do is run the amp thru the interface also, right?  So i plug the guitar into amp and then amp into interface?  Verses amp directly to the computer.
 
Oh and the midi interface...do you mean like for a midi keyboard?
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/26 01:12:34
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scook
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 01:21:59 (permalink)
Generally, audio interfaces have at least one Hi-Z input for direct connection to a guitar. The amp would only connect directly to the interface if the amp has a line out. In some cases, using an amp line out is not very good. Depends on the amp. Most using an amp would record it with a microphone. You would not use the USB from the amp for audio at all.
 
MIDI would be for a keyboard. Almost a necessity for DAW work even for severely keyboard challenged people like me. A lot of MIDI keyboards these days do use a USB connection so having a MIDI connection built into the interface is less of an issue. Using a USB connected keyboard is not the problem your amp is because a MIDI device is not treated as an audio interface.
post edited by scook - 2013/11/26 01:26:34
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 01:33:52 (permalink)
Hmmm...I figured that if I was using a midi usb that I would run into the same problems when recording, but I guess they are set up different.
 
My amp does not have line out.
 
So, Im a little confused with the guitar to interface.  Are you saying to essentially hook the guitar to the amp, then a mic to the interface and then use that to record?  My only problem with that is that I use headphones a lot, because alot of my recording is done at night...I was hoping to not have to go the mic route.
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 01:43:33 (permalink)
Yes, MIDI and audio inputs are completely separate configurations in the DAW so there is no issue there.
 
If volume is a problem, the amp is out. It is that simple. Welcome to the world of ampsims. They can be hardware like line6 pod (although they too provide a USB connection, they also have audio out which can be connected to an interface) or software like TH2, Guitar Rig or Amplitube which are hosted in the DAW. Or you are back to wrestling with driver issues trying to use the amp as an input device and a different piece of hardware and the output device.
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TCRGuitar
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 02:01:55 (permalink)
hmmm...you know amplitube came with Fender fuse...initially I had that installed...i uninstalled it because it was taking up too much memory on my old computer and I never used it.
 
I wonder if when it installed that certain drivers were installed with it allowing me to do what I wanted initially.  Probably not, but that is something that was different.  Ahh so much easier back then...lol.
 
The reason I like working with the Mustang III is that all the pedals are built in and I can adjust them thru fender fuse.  I also like how it records straight to the computer...the sound quality is better while recording vs an open amp....to me at least.
post edited by TCRGuitar - 2013/11/26 02:09:15
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 08:01:43 (permalink)
Scook has given good advice.
 
The external interface is the best option. Just be sure it uses native ASIO drivers. Some of the cheap ones don't. You should be good if you follow the advice in post 14 for the brands to choose from. I personally have used a Focusrite for many years and love it.
 
Once you have a good interface handling the audio in and out, you may be able to use the USB port on the amp to connect it directly to the computer. You will need to experiment with that. Most interfaces I have seen only have one USB port for their connection to the computer, so I doubt you will connect the amp to the interface in that manner.   I believe keyboard players with USB ports on their synths are able to input in that "direct to computer USB port" manner without issues so you should be able to do likewise with the amp/audio. Since all audio will be handled by the interface using ASIO, the whole MME/WDM issue will be a thing of the past.
 
One suggestion, get an interface with phantom power and buy a decent condenser mic as well as the interface. This will make recording vocals and miking the guitar amp easier. Using a dynamic mic isn't really the best way to go but if money is tight, you can mic the amp and vocals with any dynamic to get started.  While vox and miking electric guitars are fine with a good old SM 57 dynamic, if you need to mic acoustic guitars, a condenser is the tool for the job.
 
As far as inputs go.... MC only allows 2, and most interfaces in the lower price range also only have 2 inputs.... if you need more, or are thinking of upgrading to X3, then save the money to buy the bigger interface. I have done everything I have ever recorded using only one input live out of the 2 I have. Since I'm not in a band or running a studio for hire, having two inputs suits me fine.
 
 hope this helps a bit.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/11/26 08:03:44

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57Gregy
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Re: Music Creator 6 Recording over SI Drums 2013/11/26 08:32:41 (permalink)
I have a Mustang I. The headphone output is also the line out. I plug a 3.5 mm to 1/4" cord into that and my Focusrite Saffire. Works fine.
Does the III have a Phones output? It should work... but then you would probably encounter latency issues with the RealTek in MME mode. I'll even go out on a limb and say you will encounter latency issues.
You can still use Fuse to change presets or load new ones into the amp from the internet, but maybe not at the same time as when recording.
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