Music Creator Newb - Instrument help?

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ArcadiaVincennes
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2005/12/26 19:58:12 (permalink)

Music Creator Newb - Instrument help?

If this has been explained previously, my apologies. If you'd be kind enough to point me to any resources, I'd appreciate it. I have searched a bit, but to no avail...

At any rate my question is...

I've got Music Creator (2.0 I think) and Kinetic. I'm just bumbling around in it now, getting the hang of it. My main concern is that I've tried different 'Instruments' (roland, generic, yamaha) and 'banks' but all the instruments pretty much sound like generic midi with slight variations in tone; nothing really sounds like an actual instrument.

What I'm going to attempt to do is just plain compose on the PC using music createor, and then output to an audio file - .wav or .mp3. It's not going to go through an exterior mixer or instrument or anything. It's all going to stay on this one PC.

Now, I've read up on midi vs. audio and other basic tutorials and explanations. But I'm still a little confused.

So is there any way for me to get an 'instrument package' (I don't know if that's what I should be calling it) that will sound like actual instruments while I work in Music Creator? Or am I stuck with this synth sounding stuff until I export the material as audio? And if I am stuck with it until I export it, how do I know with what I export it with to get music that sounds like actual instruments, and not like synth midi?

I hope I'm being clear enough here. Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

I don't know if it matters, but the sound card I have is a Creative Labs Audigy X-Gamer.
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    Robomusic
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/27 14:56:21 (permalink)
    Using soft synths

    When using midi tracks in CAKEWALK or any sequencer, there are many way to reproduce the sound from the midi data. One can use an internal synth on the sound card, or inside XP there is Microsoft synth GS, or you can route thru a soft synth that you download or install, some are synths, some are samplers, others use sound fonts, each has unique capabilities that you can use to reproduce midi data into sound.

    Cakewalk only uses DX type instruments as synths unless one installs a wrapper type program, these allow you to use VST instruments and effects, VST is a trademark that comes from cubase, and anyone who makes a program that uses VST technology must gain access to that from Cubase, Cakewalk uses DX technology that is from Microsoft development. So keep in mind that at first you need to obtain effects and instrument that are designed with DX technology.

    In order to use soft synths to replay a midi file you will need to play them through an audio track, this will allow the midi to be routed through a soft synth and produce an audible output. Here is what you need to do, and for this tutorial we will use Edirol VSC (VSC stands for Virtual Sound Canvas) but for all intents and purposes, this will work with any DX instrument, and at the end I will post links to several that you can down load.

    First let’s go to a midi download site and down load a file, then we will open it in CAKEWALK and process it. Go to this site http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/creed90952/index.htm?mtbrand=AOL_US

    Go down the page and find the eagles best of my love file, we will use this as the example, right click the file and then click save as target, save this file in a folder you are familiar with, then a pop up box will appear, that with ask you to open , click cancel.

    Now open CAKEWALK and go to file and then click open, the open box will allow you to find the folder that you saved the file in( the file name is bestlove.mid), then when you do double click it, it should open in MC. Now you will have a file that has 10 tracks of midi, there will be one track that say words on it, ignore it. Now under the last track that is named “Ride”, place your cursor and right click, a box will pop up go up and chose “insert audio track”, maximize that audio track by clicking the double box icon next to the MSR on the track, then right click the fx box and chose Dx Instruments, (or DX synths for some version) and click on Edirol VSC, Edirol will pop up close it for now, minimize the track again, and then maximize each midi track one at a time and left click each output box and chose Edirol VSC as the output, then minimize each until all of them have Edirol as the output device. Now hit play, and the file should play thru Edirol.

    Okay let’s learn to change up the sounds in Edirol a bit, go to the audio track that has Edirol in it and maximize it again, double click on edirol and it should pop up into view. Each track has been assigned to an instrument, this is because Edirol acts like a GM/GS synth like the one on the sound card, but with a little bit better tones. At the bottom of Edirol is a button called setup, click that and a box will open, change the generator tones to GS from GM, and slide the polyphony bar to 128 and hit okay. and then move Edirol down just a bit hit play again Now notice that you can adjust the panning, volume, reverb, expression, delay and chorus so if you want adjust a couple of those as the song plays.

    Now that is the basics, you can use any DX instrument to do this depending on it’s personal attributes, some only do one track, other do many. If you want more than one synth, then open more than one audio track to hold them. You might want edirol to do everything but the drums and guitar and use sampletank for those, then open two one for each.

    To get more synths go here http://www.kvraudio.com/ go to the side and see a box that has the words instruments, effects, host, etc. and click that then go down to advanced search, in box 1. click on instruments, go down further and find 2. and click DX, then down to 3 and click only Windows, then to 4. and click only free, then down to search. There should be 5 on the list go to sampletank, sonic synth, synth 1 and triangleII download each of these and they will work with CAKEWALK be careful to follow the instructions for each carefully, this will take some time be patient, this will set you up for some great sounds.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    ArcadiaVincennes
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/27 20:04:54 (permalink)
    Oh, I see. I'd read that in the faq? beginners? section but didn't understand it applied to what I was doing. Thank you.

    So I went ahead and gave this a try. I think I was doing well, but then I went to install one of the syths you reccomended. It's telling me to place or direct it to my VST plugin folder. Well, I searched through the Cakewalk directory (Music Creater 2) and couldn't find any folder with VST in it. I think I need to tell it where my VST wrapper is? Do I, or rather MC have one?

    Still a little stuck, but definately on the road now. Thanks again for the help thus far.
    post edited by ArcadiaVincennes - 2005/12/27 20:06:31
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    Robomusic
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/27 20:12:03 (permalink)
    MC does not come with VSTi wrapper, you need to purchase one, Mnay here like the DirectXer, Or upgrade to Home Studio it come with the wrapper.

    The Sampletank and sonic synth synths are DXis so they do not need a wrapper, just install them on the hard drive and make sure you download and unzip the instruments, in the instrument folder (installed when the program is installed) and cakewalk will find them.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

    http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?AID=33477&T=1260
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    ArcadiaVincennes
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/28 20:25:19 (permalink)
    Ok, so I went ahead and did that. Thank you for the help. I feel like I'm beginning to get it.

    Now, I tried out the sounds, but many are not really what I'm looking for. I guess at this point I've got the process down, but now I'm looking for specific instruments/sounds. Besides the ones you kindly pointed me to in the above post, are there any packages, or synths (not sure what the right term is still) that contain mostly standard instrument sounds? I tried a google search and came up with some stuff I didn't really understand. I'm getting the impression that for quality instrument sounds to 'plug in' to MC, I'll need to purchase them. Or are any free?

    Still a little stumped, but almost to where I'm trying to get to...

    thanks again. :)
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    Robomusic
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/28 20:39:26 (permalink)
    There are many free sound fonts out there, and they sound pretty good, I have about 300 of them in a folder that gives me a ton of options, if you have a sound blaster card some of those will load the sound fonts and play them like a synth chip. or you can purchase a wrapper and a sound font player and go crazy with them, but for the price of a sound font player and a VSTi wrapper you can almost upgrade to Home Studio XL and it has a sound font plaer. and a wrapper included.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    ArcadiaVincennes
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/28 21:28:47 (permalink)
    It's starting to sound like I chose the wrong software to start with. Let me do this, if you would be so kind... Let me explain what I'd like to do, and, if you could, reccomend the best way to go about it? Please?

    I'd like to compose music with standard instruments, from rock guitars, bass, and drumset, to orchestal instruments, to jazz instruments. I'm not very interested in loops and electronic sounds much, although I'm interested in experimenting later, after I've got the instruments straightened out. I've played some instruments and have composed a little from time to time but the last time I composed on the PC was back in the early '90's. I'm an aspiring game level designer and want to compose the backround music for my own maps.

    So, what would you reccomend for me? Sonal XL and then get soundfonts? or something else? From what I read, it sounds like sonar XL comes with an instrument library. Does it contain standardinstruments, or more of the more 'electronic' kind that the other synths you've directed me to have emphasized?

    Thanks again for your help with this.
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    Robomusic
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/28 22:14:22 (permalink)
    Sonar Home Studio XL comes with a full set of standard instruemnt that can be loaded into the sample player. Also it has two or three synths to do other stuff with. the nice thing is that the upgrae right now is $129 so you really did not waste any cash. You can get XL at the guitar center for $159 that is the best price i have seen so far, so that makes the upgrade a very good deal. One thing to consider is that the next jump is Soanr 5.0 studio, and it is a $159 upgrade for any registered cakewalk owner right now as well. Either will do a great job. Both have sound font players and synths.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    ArcadiaVincennes
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    RE: Music Creator Newb - Instrument help? 2005/12/29 10:22:49 (permalink)
    Thanks for the advice. I'll think about these choices.

    Again, I appreciate all the help. :)
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