Helpful ReplyMusic Production and Deafness

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Jesse Screed
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2015/12/04 19:38:21 (permalink)

Music Production and Deafness

Hellio All,  I need to get some input from others about a situation that I basically have no control over.  Because of an accident I had a few years ago I am now 90% deaf in my right ear.  I also experiece a constant hissing sound in the same ear.  My other ear is fine and I take precaution by wearing ear plugs when using power tools, mowing the lawn, or in any loud environment.  My room is 20' x 12 ' x 8' and has some treatment. I rarely, if ever, turn my music up past 80 db when mixing. I generally hover between 60 db and 70 db, with peaks around 78 0r 79 db.
I think that my mixes are improving with time, and experience, but I know that I am missing out on part of the soundscape because of my "disability."  The only techniques that I currently try to employ to deal with this, in descending order of usage, is to turn around in my studio chair so that my back is to the monitors and I can hear the right side with my good ear, rotate my headphones so that the left is the right and the right is the left, and lastly mix, mix in mono.
 
Are there any other forum member who deal with these types of issues?  If there are, what are the issues that you find cropping up in your mixes because of a hearing impairment?  Thirdly, what techniques do you employ to help alleviate the impediment when it comes to recording, mixing, and mastering music?
 
Thanks for any input
 
Jesse
 
 
#1
Leadfoot
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/04 20:36:34 (permalink)
I have a little hearing damage. Mine is more of a problem of each ear has different frequency deficiencies. My left ear doesn't hear low frequencies as well as my right ear. My right ear doesn't hear higher frequencies as well as my left ear. I don't know whether my ear canals are shaped differently, or if it's damage from years of playing in bands. I use some of the same techniques as you. I also use frequency analyzers (not Sonar's) to see if what I'm hearing is being visually represented on the analyzer. I also solo the left and right channels, and listen with each ear facing each monitor individually. I also listen to the mix in mono. That's about all I can think of at the moment. I'll chime back in if I think of anything else.
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jerrydf
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/05 04:11:37 (permalink)
One famous case in the pantheons of modern music is Brian Wilson. He produced about the finest stuff of the 20th (and now 21st) centuries.
 
In my advancing years I'm aware of my hearing not being as sharp as it used to be, and I'm sure my left and right ears are different. Swapping the headphones round gives quite a difference.
 
The mono mix is quite an important point, and has been mentioned a lot in recent posts in this forum, just for standard mixing practice, not necessarily for hearing impairments. Like much of modern production, more options - tracks, effects and channels - often confuses the process.
 
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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/05 09:38:56 (permalink)
Brian Wilson's an interesting case. As most know, he was almost completely deaf in one ear, and yet is widely regarded as one of the best mix engineers of all time. When most contemporary bedroom mixers are directing their efforts at getting stereo width, you've got to wonder how the heck he pulled it off.
 
Like many of the legendary mixers, he started out in a mono world. The Beach Boys saw their first commercial success in 1962, a time when 99% of record purchases were mono, when very few consumers owned stereo gear, and most music was listened to on AM radio. Even into the mid-70's, it was common practice to do the mono mix first, then a stereo version. 
 
Consequently, all mix engineers of the era were more adept at mono mixes than stereo. Unfortunately, it almost became a lost art starting in the 80's. But it was eventually rediscovered. People realized that if you got a good mono mix first, turning that into a good stereo mix was easy. Today, it's once again common practice to mix in mono first and then stereo-ize it.
 
One way that's done is to use a mono speaker. You (Jesse) don't have to, as you're hearing essentially mono all the time. You have the potential to be a very good mono mixer! So don't worry about it - make the best mono mix you can and then solicit the aid of another set of ears to tweak the stereo version.
 
No, I'm not suggesting you need someone else to do the stereo mix for you, only to provide feedback and suggestions. You can visually apply stereo effects yourself because a good stereo mix also sounds good in mono. IOW, you'll know if you're screwing up the balance. 
 
On a related tangent, all of us are gradually losing hearing acuity. As we age, the tiny hair cells in our cochlea are dying, reducing our ears' ability to respond to high frequencies. To make matters worse, both ears don't age exactly the same, so our frequency sensitivity becomes asymmetrical. Statistics show that audio engineers lose their hearing faster than the general population, so we have to adapt.
 
Fortunately, the digital age has provided us with visual aids. They should not be dismissed as cheats! When I hear guys mindlessly repeating that tired "trust your ears" mantra, it's like listening to somebody insist that global warming is a liberal conspiracy. I don't care how good your hearing is, you cannot trust your ears (or, more accurately, your brain). Everyone should learn how to use visual aids properly, not as the sole source of information but to augment our unreliable ears.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Jesse Screed
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/05 19:16:02 (permalink)
Hey, thanks for the great advice, and thanks for the encouragement that all is not lost.  It is good to hear from others who deal with similar issues. It is good to hear Bit say that everyone has hearing issues...it sounds like hearing changes virtually everyday of your life, you never have the same acuity because your hearing is changing minute by every passing minute.
 
I do like the idea of getting input from someone else on stereo mix, and that is the hard part.  If I could find someone who could do that for me I would turn all inside out.  The song forum is a good place to start. There are a plethora of opinions and some very talented folks who are ready to share their insight, but wouldn't we all love to have someone who we trusted, and who recognized our vision, and took the time to work out that stereo thingy thang along with us?
 
I get the visual thing too.  I love the plugs that visually represent the waveform, and I use them along with my one ear, but then I also need to take into account my room....my damn room!!!
 
I have heard about those auratones (sp), but if I hear in mono anyway, would I benefit from one of those?
 
Thanks, this exchange has thus far been cool.  Now I need to go find some of this Brian Wiltson music.
 
Hearing everything in mono is crazy, I wish i could hear in stereo, that would be so cool.  I used to be able too, but I forgot what it was like.
 
Jesse
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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/06 10:09:13 (permalink)
Auratone-type speakers have an additional benefit, which is that they're horrible at producing the extreme high and low ends of the audio spectrum (but are reasonably flat in between). That forces you to concentrate on the real meat of any mix, which is the midrange.
 
We spend a lot of time addressing the low and high ends, but that's because they're difficult to dial in, not because they're the most important. Devoting all that attention to the spectral perimeters can make us lose focus on the truly critical frequencies in the middle.
 
Suggested samples of Brian Wilson's genius:
Good Vibrations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eab_beh07HU
I Get Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wREBD2og5iY
 
These mono mixes could serve as modern references for how to make that midrange jump out.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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Jesse Screed
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/06 15:45:59 (permalink)
Thanks, you have been a true help.  I will listen to those tracks.  I also remember a thread about mixing in mono and they talked about those speakers.  I will look it up and try to learn from it. 
 
Do you use one of those speakers Mr. Bit?
 
Jesse
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tagruvto
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 08:04:11 (permalink)
Hey Jesse - after 40 + years of playing bass at live venues, and foolishly neglecting to protect my ears during most of this time, my hearing is also compromised.  The high end response in my left ear is way down and both ears have that ever present companion of ringing and hissing.  Totally my own fault, so not complaining, just the way it is
 
My approach, like Bit's, is to do all my initial volume settings and eq settings in Mono.  I also use an additional single monaural speaker, An Avantone, to check the mix along the way.  I also really rely on my reference tunes to help keep me from wandering too far off the path.
post edited by tagruvto - 2015/12/07 08:16:15

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robert_e_bone
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 09:50:15 (permalink)
I recently picked up a pretty well-written book on mixing, called: "The Art of Mixing", 2nd Edition, by David Gibson (ran me about $50 - the library had a sister library that would have given me access to a copy, but I chose to support the author by going ahead and buying my own copy)
 
In the book, there are perhaps 20 pages near the front, that have graphic illustrations that show the sonic placement f each instrument or group of instruments used for a whole bunch of songs that are regarded as being mixed really well.
 
So, there is a different illustration for each of the example songs, and for each illustration, the placement of each instrument is shown by a colored 3 D bubble, so drums are maybe blue and sit in the middle, and rhythm guitar may be yellow and shown slightly to one side, backing vocals might be green and off to the right, etc...
 
I found these illustrations quite helpful, when I was envisioning instrument placement for various projects of mine, and I would think that combining these images with spectral analysis would really assist you with working on your mixes, despite your hearing loss and ageing issues.
 
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mettelus
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 09:57:57 (permalink)
There are multiple copies of "The Art of Mixing" on YouTube, the entire video is 2hrs 40mins but some have also sliced it up into sections. The visual effects are rather entertaining due to the era it was made in, but the concepts still apply.

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batsbrew
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 10:13:43 (permalink)
bitflipper
Brian Wilson's an interesting case. As most know, he was almost completely deaf in one ear, and yet is widely regarded as one of the best mix engineers of all time. 


i've never considered him a 'mix engineer'
 
maybe a producer,
certainly a brilliant writer,
but i don't see how you could ever excel in stereo mixes with only one ear.
then it's mono.
 

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sharke
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 13:32:00 (permalink)
mettelus
There are multiple copies of "The Art of Mixing" on YouTube, the entire video is 2hrs 40mins but some have also sliced it up into sections. The visual effects are rather entertaining due to the era it was made in, but the concepts still apply.




I watched the whole thing a couple of years ago. Quirky and entertaining but probably could have condensed the info in it into less than an hour. I suspect the book is better. 

James
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sharke
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 13:35:33 (permalink)
Leadfoot
I have a little hearing damage. Mine is more of a problem of each ear has different frequency deficiencies. My left ear doesn't hear low frequencies as well as my right ear. My right ear doesn't hear higher frequencies as well as my left ear. I don't know whether my ear canals are shaped differently, or if it's damage from years of playing in bands. I use some of the same techniques as you. I also use frequency analyzers (not Sonar's) to see if what I'm hearing is being visually represented on the analyzer. I also solo the left and right channels, and listen with each ear facing each monitor individually. I also listen to the mix in mono. That's about all I can think of at the moment. I'll chime back in if I think of anything else.



 
I have the same thing and I don't know if it's hearing damage (I blasted my ear drums for a lot of years) or just natural quirks. For instance, my eyes see slightly different colors. I have one ear that hears bass better, and another which hears treble better. I think the most important thing with any audio deficiency whether it be your ears or the room, is to use reference material constantly. 
 
My biggest problem is tinnitus. Almost everyone I know of my age (early 40's) has it to some degree. We screwed our ears from playing in bands, clubbing and raving. I have very high frequency hissing that's extremely noticeable when listening to quiet passages of music. It's kind of a bummer but I'm fine with it at this point, totally used to it. 

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Jesse Screed
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/07 19:36:11 (permalink)
Thanks to everyone.  Your input is not taken lightly. 
 
May you all hear FOREVER.
 
Sure do miss stereo though.
 
Jesse Q
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bapu
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/08 12:00:17 (permalink)
I'm 62. At age 50 I lost nearly all hearing in my left ear (I'm at ~35%, all high freqs cut through, no lows). My right ear is at ~70% mostly low freq almost no highs. In most mono headphone tests I can't hear past 6KHz. If I had to rely solely on my right ear I'm pretty sure about 3KHz would be my cutoff.
 
As my pal bit says; it's only going to get worse over time. I'm hoping to hear of some magical implants in the next 5 years. As the Beach Boys sang.... Wouldn't It Be Nice.
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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/08 12:17:51 (permalink)
Be sure to check out the H.E.A.R. booth at NAMM (that's Pete Townshend's deaf-rocker support group). Assuming they'll be there again this year, handing out earplugs.
 
In past years there have been free hearing tests at NAMM, provided by some local audiologists. I didn't get one, as the line was TOO LONG. I suspect more than a few NAMM attendees are hearing impaired, if not beforehand than certainly afterward.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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bapu
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/08 12:27:45 (permalink)
Can you PLEASSSSE speak up bit, I cannae hear you.
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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 11:49:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2015/12/09 12:41:51
I SAID, MOST OF US HERE ARE HEARING-IMPAIRED, WHETHER WE KNOW IT OR NOT


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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patm300e
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 12:15:38 (permalink)
lol

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sharke
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 12:41:52 (permalink)
I'm frightened to wear cans when someone else is in charge of the sound source, ever since I read about what happened to Andy Partridge of XTC. He was listening to a track at full volume to check for noise when some doofus in the studio triggered a snare sample through his cans. Permanent raging tinnitus ever since. Apparently he spent months sitting every morning in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber to reduce the noise (which apparently works to some extent). But it just goes to show you how easily you can screw your ears through being careless. 
 
Of course the other example of how quickly you can do it exists on film - Pete Townsend standing next to Keith Moon's exploding drum kit on The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour.

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bapu
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 13:49:16 (permalink)
My solution

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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 14:19:59 (permalink)
Think that's what they were doing here?



All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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batsbrew
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 15:15:35 (permalink)
bitflipper
Think that's what they were doing here?

 

with that many speakers,
you could REALLY hear how crappy they were!
 
LOL
 

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gbowling
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 15:42:06 (permalink)
Whew, it's windy today!
No. Today's Thursday!
So am I! Let's go to the bar!
 
LONG LIVE ROCK-N-ROLL!!
 
So what are everyone's favorite visual aids?
post edited by gbowling - 2015/12/09 15:53:59

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ØSkald
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 17:19:26 (permalink)
I have also hearing damage. Pluss i have a damage to my right air from illness or something. They newer found out what it was, but my right ear is pretty bad. Tinnitus too.
I use the channel tool for mono, stereo and channel switching.

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bitflipper
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 17:49:03 (permalink)
gbowling
So what are everyone's favorite visual aids?



1. Voxengo SPAN
2. The spectragram view in MDynamicEQ/MAutoDynamicEQ
3. MMultiAnalyzer's volume history
4. iZotope Insight (extra points for having the best resizable VST UI)
5. Adobe Audition
6. Windows 10 screen magnifier and Chrome/Firefox zoom shortcuts
7. My spectacles
 
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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gbowling
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 18:22:52 (permalink)
bitflipper
7. My spectacles



I'm with ya bit, it's it just great when your ears AND your eyes both go!!

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Jimbo21
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/09 21:01:16 (permalink)
Another tinnitus sufferer here from the usual years of abuse over the course of many gigs, rehearsals and attending loud concerts.  I rely on Span quite a bit, as well as reference tracks.

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sharke
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/10 17:05:33 (permalink)
Didn't I just read something recently about the advantages of mixing with some white noise or similar in the background? I wonder if the advantages extend to the contact hiss of tinnitus :)

James
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yummay
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Re: Music Production and Deafness 2015/12/12 20:57:52 (permalink)
How would you guys rate the quality of these visual aids?
 
1- cake's own quad curve eq ?
2- blue cat's FreqAnalyst ?
 ... And tinnitus-plagued audio-producer-wannabe-already-in-his-forties over here as well... Damn!
 
post edited by yummay - 2015/12/12 21:12:08

Yummay,
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