MandolinPicker
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Music Sales Continue to Plunge
There is an article over at Variety on the continued decline of music sales, both CD and digital ( http://variety.com/2014/music/news/music-sales-fall-albums-digital-downloads-losses-1201257795/). Streaming music is up, but the money is not there like with sales of music. The other interesting thing in the article is the continued rise of vinyl sales. Granted it is a small part of the overall sales, but who would have thought vinyl would be making this type of inroads. Lots of ideas about why music sales are declining - music isn't as important as it use to be, it is just background noise, incomes too low for luxury purchases of music, etc (a combination of these factors and more). While I don't think music is ever going to go away, I begin to wonder if too much effort was put into the 'making' of the hit music stars of today, and not enough effort into the music. I look back at the 60s and 70s with guys like Hank Williams, Jim Reeves, Willie Nelson, Bill Monroe, Conway Twitty and others. They had good music, good voices, and good songs, all without the flash you see today (the flashiest thing was probably the Nudie Suit they wore). I think that if these same guys were to start in the music business today, none of them would ever get their foot in the door. What do you think? Has style overtaking substance in the music world today? Or am I just too old?
The Mandolin Picker "Bless your hearts... and all your vital organs" - John Duffy "Got time to breath, got time for music!"- Briscoe Darling, Jr. Windows 8.1, Sonar Platinum (64-bit), AMD FX 6120 Six-Core, 10GB RAM
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bayoubill
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 10:05:26
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Pretty good synopsis I'd say. Music is just not important today. It's definitely true that if the stars of yesteryear were going for it today they wouldn't have a chance. Today "packages" have to get the biggest bang for the buck and talent or musical integrity etc. has nothing to do with it.
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yorolpal
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 10:29:53
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When everyone can "make music" it becomes virtually worthless. At least economically. Folks still like listening to it though...go figure.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 12:35:07
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I suspect there is about the same proportion of musicians in the population as there ever was, but before today's technology no-one knew about them, except in their local area.
Now we can see and hear just about every musician there is, so it's just a tsunami of music that has an inverse effect.
Watched a show last night, 'The 10 Richest Songs' (those that have been calculated to have made the most money over the years). They included 'You've Lost That Loving Feeling', 'Stand By Me' 'Every Breath You Take', 'Unchained Melody', 'White Christmas' and of course 'Happy Birthday'.
* Interesting footnote in that documentary - all the popular secular Christmas songs, 'White Christmas', 'Winter Wonderland', 'Santa Claus is Coming to Town' 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer' etc - all written by Jewish songwriters...
The show was about 6 years old and they were suggesting that Adele's 'Rolling In The Deep' may join the list in the future..I have my doubts. I think the days of writing a 'classic song' has well and truly gone.
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bapu
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 12:57:42
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Honestly the only "new" music I've bought over the past five years has been from our forum members.
DEMORGAN - HUMAN INCAPCITY (Miggy from the Philippines)
Bob Oister - Face The Fire
Batsbrew - (first release?)
Frank Tanton - bought two of his IIRC
Maybe Juan or Too more
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sharke
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 13:10:44
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The future money is clearly in streaming, but like I've said before, to make good Spotify cash you have to release albums that are consistently good all the way through. In the past, you could shift millions of albums full of crap tracks on the strength of one or two hit singles. Now, an album like that on Spotify is going to have all of its streams concentrated on those hit tracks while the other ones don't generate. I think that's a good thing. The pressure is on artists to release great albums full of great tracks which get played over and over. I did a little rough math in an earlier post and worked out that for an artist to earn as much from an album on Spotify as they would from a CD sale (presuming an average $2 royalty from a CD), it has to be played all the way through something like 29 times. I have favorite CD's that I've listened to more times than that since I've had them, and thus if I had done that listening on Spotify it would have earned the artist more than they would have gotten in royalties off the CD.
Part of the reason why the "money isn't there" with streaming is that its (paying) user base is still comparatively tiny as a market. I think that when streaming services have a user base that is comparable to the CD market of yore, artists are going to have less to complain about.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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bapu
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 13:13:29
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sharke
I think that when streaming services have a user base that is comparable to the CD market of yore
Therein lies the rub? That could take tens of years.
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sharke
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 14:53:52
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bapu
sharke
I think that when streaming services have a user base that is comparable to the CD market of yore
Therein lies the rub?
That could take tens of years.
I'm a little more optimistic. These things have a way of ballooning very quickly. Look at Netflix.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Rain
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 15:16:37
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You know, even Paul Stanley recently admitted in an interview that KISS couldn't happen in this day and age - and if band ever knew what style and visuals were about... So it's not just a matter of flash and style.
Why do music sale continue to plunge? Well, because when people don't need to pay for it, why would they?
When I was a kid, even though you could always make a copy of an album, it wasn't the real thing. Sound quality wasn't as good, you didn't have the album artwork and the lyrics...
I remember waiting for months for the release of Ozzy Osbourne/Randy Rhoads Tribute, anxious to finally hear my favorite guitar player live for more than a song or 2. And when the album came out, I remember listening to it in its entirety regularly, spending hours gazing at those never-seen-before pics.
All this contributed to make the record "sacred" - I couldn't imagine being satisfied w/ a copy of that record. I wanted the real thing. All that stuff was precious, it was rare. But not anymore.
It's quite simple, IMHO. Reminds me of when I was a kid, envying those spoiled brats who used to have all the cool toys, who didn't even appreciate what they had. And my mom would try and make me understand how much more I'd appreciate something if I earned it.
Now that we all have access to everything, everywhere all the time, I guess it's hard to appreciate it. And if it has no value to you, why would you pay for it?
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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soens
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 15:17:04
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By then (tens of years) you'll be "streaming" songs right into your brains by cleverly implanted wireless receiving chips that can pick up a variety of signals near and far. The music biz will be out of biz. All music will be free and previously famous rock stars will become nothing more than rocks.
If you go for the package deal which includes a TXmitter you can also transmit those songs to other people. The technology will quickly escalate to the point where any random thought can be Txed or Rxed. True telepathy will be the norm.... my thoughts are your thoughts, etc.... scary!
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slartabartfast
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 15:28:54
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The article includes some figures that hint at the possibility that people may not be listening to music as much as they once did, not just that sales and profits are lower because of changes in the way people acquire the music they like. If everyone who had bought albums in the past and played them over and over were switching to streaming, one would expect a huge increase in streams. For years the driver of the popular music monster was adolescent social networking in which actual physical contact with other kids, in which listening to and dancing to music played a significant role. The creepy little nerds who listened to stuff that didn't make the top 40, by themselves in their rooms were pretty much irrelevant to the major market.
My impression is that solo listening is becoming more common, to the detriment of the social contagion that used to push pop hits to the top. Video games have their own sound track, and web based social networking does not require music to function. Of course the percentage of the population under twenty has been falling for years. And the limited playlist local radio stations that used to tell kids what was hot are having a worse time than the record industry.
Much of the music that is selling seems to be going to an older audience. The big sellers in the article are pretty mature performers and songs. Adele is hardly likely to inspire the bubble gum set. As the children of the pop music juggernaut age out, we are seeing a lot of older performers making the larger sales as the sales as a whole are shrinking. That nostalgia market may be why people are buying boutique vinyl releases.
If the demand for music as a whole is dropping, and the plays are being scattered across many more different releases than in the past due to the open door to distribution via the web, the value of any particular release will fall. The days of the mega-hit uberwealthy superstar may be over. Many of the most successful of recent performers are putting out theater as much as song, and, like sports figures, making as much from endorsements and branding as they do from music.
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Moshkiae
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 18:05:19
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Hi,
I sure wish these articles that kiss the arsenic of so many "corporations" that have ripped off more musicians and artists than people that have died under the name of a religion, would die off and fall off the face of the earth.
It's time all MUSICIANS take hold of their music and stop "selling" it and start collecting it themselves. Unless you want to do a big ego thing like some "stars" or what not, and then we all will be saying that you sold out anyway!
There is an ECONOMICS Theory that specifies that the healthy economy has to share and frame a sort of figure 8 in order for things to improve. That means that the money comes back to help you. These "big corporate" crappers break the figure and the money goes away from you, your town and the ability for it to come back and help you!
Of course VARIETY is going to say sales are down. NY can't suck up the money from other locations like it wants to and they are in dire need of a series adjustment of expectations and finances!
You gotta stop the bleeding that these big cities and corporations do to small towns! It's us locals that lose!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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soens
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/05 22:18:04
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The simple fact is... they don't make music anymore. The sensation has worn off. Everyone has collected all the old music they want and are now waiting for good new stuff that hasn't arrived yet, and may never. I watched the music scene over the past 30 years or so and the cycle was like a rollercoaster, up and down but on a gradual declining slope. It was inevitable that eventually every form of music would be discovered and exploited to death until there's simply no more to be had. We are now entering that stage of the inevitable.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 05:21:07
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☄ Helpfulby craigb 2014/07/06 18:37:22
slartabartfast
The creepy little nerds who listened to stuff that didn't make the top 40, by themselves in their rooms were pretty much irrelevant to the major market.
I resemble that remark...
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 07:37:19
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Streams are now being used in compiling the figures for the UK singles chart. http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27924176 I have never used a streaming service. I could see using one to find new music but I would want to buy it once I decided I liked it. The whole idea of streaming seems too transient. edit from the BBC article.
Each track will have to be played for 30 seconds before it counts as one stream.
To avoid fans "gaming" the system, only 10 plays will be counted per user, per day.
So listening to 30 seconds of a song is counted. Just 30 seconds, that's hardy long enough for the intro on much of the music I like. At the very least only songs played in their entirety should count!
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2014/07/06 07:44:11
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Moshkiae
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 11:38:31
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soens
The simple fact is... they don't make music anymore. The sensation has worn off.
...
Those "corporations" NEVER did make any music anymore, and when the rights expires, the families have first rights over them! This has helped the Zappa Trust a lot. Now, of we can get 200 Motels off Warner Brothers and the movie studios! That will be the next curse for the corporate world!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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tom1
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 12:50:02
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I sure wish these articles that kiss the arsenic of so many "corporations" that have ripped off more musicians and artists than people that have died under the name of a religion, would die off and fall off the face of the earth.
Those "corporations" NEVER did make any music anymore, and when the rights expires, the families have first rights over them! This has helped the Zappa Trust a lot. Now, of we can get 200 Motels off Warner Brothers and the movie studios! That will be the next curse for the corporate world!
So what do you think of drones? :)
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sharke
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 12:58:53
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Glyn Barnes
Streams are now being used in compiling the figures for the UK singles chart.
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27924176
I have never used a streaming service. I could see using one to find new music but I would want to buy it once I decided I liked it. The whole idea of streaming seems too transient.
edit
from the BBC article.
Each track will have to be played for 30 seconds before it counts as one stream.
To avoid fans "gaming" the system, only 10 plays will be counted per user, per day.
So listening to 30 seconds of a song is counted. Just 30 seconds, that's hardy long enough for the intro on much of the music I like.
At the very least only songs played in their entirety should count!
I agree 30 seconds is way too short - I wonder what counts as a play for the artist to get paid. I had presumed it was at least 50% of the track.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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yorolpal
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 13:28:24
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No way has the number of so called "musicians" remained static over the last 50 years. When I were a lad there was one tiny music store in town whose main instrument business was supplying the school band programs. They had maybe five guitars and a couple of amps and such in stock. Zero pedals...because there weren't any. And zero PA equipment except what might be needed for a lectern at a school or church. There was almost no popular music infrastructure in Anytown USA. Zilch. No Guitar Center...no Sweetwater...no Musicians friend. And no seemingly endless different companies making and selling gear like today. There were the kids in the school band and a handful of us who played folk or rock n roll. I was one of about ten or twelve guys who populated the three or four bands that played at pool partys and "sock hops". I've watched as I've aged the growth of the modern music industry over lo these many years. Nowadays...and here I'll confess to hyperbole...seems like every kid on planet earth owns some sort of "instrument" and claims to "make music" with it. I even saw an ad recently for some sort of cloud based instant track creation app that let's a kid just sing somethin into their cell phone...pop it up to the cloud...and within minutes get back a full blown track with their so called vocal on it. And that ad talked about these kids as artists and musicians. If you mean to say that the number of classically and/or professionally trained and performing musicians has remained more or less static I'd be inclined to agree. But the number of folks who refer to themselves as musicians has grown exponentially. Whether that's good or bad is a whole nother thing:-)
post edited by yorolpal - 2014/07/06 13:34:07
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sharke
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 14:00:22
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yorolpal
No way has the number of so called "musicians" remained static over the last 50 years. When I were a lad there was one tiny music store in town whose main instrument business was supplying the school band programs. They had maybe five guitars and a couple of amps and such in stock. Zero pedals...because there weren't any. And zero PA equipment except what might be needed for a lectern at a school or church. There was almost no popular music infrastructure in Anytown USA. Zilch. No Guitar Center...no Sweetwater...no Musicians friend. And no seemingly endless different companies making and selling gear like today. There were the kids in the school band and a handful of us who played folk or rock n roll. I was one of about ten or twelve guys who populated the three or four bands that played at pool partys and "sock hops".
I've watched as I've aged the growth of the modern music industry over lo these many years. Nowadays...and here I'll confess to hyperbole...seems like every kid on planet earth owns some sort of "instrument" and claims to "make music" with it. I even saw an ad recently for some sort of cloud based instant track creation app that let's a kid just sing somethin into their cell phone...pop it up to the cloud...and within minutes get back a full blown track with their so called vocal on it. And that ad talked about these kids as artists and musicians.
If you mean to say that the number of classically and/or professionally trained and performing musicians has remained more or less static I'd be inclined to agree. But the number of folks who refer to themselves as musicians has grown exponentially. Whether that's good or bad is a whole nother thing:-)
The same thing could be said about "photographers."
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Rain
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 14:40:54
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sharke
The same thing could be said about "photographers."
Funny though, people don't call themselves photographer as readily as they adopt titles such as "DJ/Producer". Maybe because cameras have been available to the public for decades, so people have been taking pictures w/o being "photographers" for a while. Whereas until recently, you couldn't really be a musician unless you, uh, could actually play music. And even then, unless you had gigs all the time or taught music or a record deal, you were just a guy playing guitar. I remember how much fun I had as a very young kid messing with the turntable making all kinds of noise, accelerating and slowing down things and all - ruining some of my parents records in the process. That was called having fun, no one in their right mind would have called me a musician for doing so. Same for creating our own very odd mixes and mashes using the 2 turntables in college later on. Fun. No title. I don't know. "Photographer" is also a bit less glamorous than "musician".
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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sharke
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 16:47:53
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☄ Helpfulby Rain 2014/07/06 18:21:33
Rain
sharke
The same thing could be said about "photographers."
Funny though, people don't call themselves photographer as readily as they adopt titles such as "DJ/Producer". Maybe because cameras have been available to the public for decades, so people have been taking pictures w/o being "photographers" for a while. Whereas until recently, you couldn't really be a musician unless you, uh, could actually play music. And even then, unless you had gigs all the time or taught music or a record deal, you were just a guy playing guitar.
I remember how much fun I had as a very young kid messing with the turntable making all kinds of noise, accelerating and slowing down things and all - ruining some of my parents records in the process. That was called having fun, no one in their right mind would have called me a musician for doing so. Same for creating our own very odd mixes and mashes using the 2 turntables in college later on. Fun. No title.
I don't know. "Photographer" is also a bit less glamorous than "musician".
Yeah maybe there aren't as many people calling themselves photographers, but still there are a frightening number of complete amateurs posing as professionals, as this website catalogs on a daily basis: http://youarenotaphotographer.com/
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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craigb
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 18:43:50
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MC DJ Bapu-o-matic? 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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michaelhanson
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 20:15:17
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MC DJ Bapu-o-matic? Ewwweee.......where can I get one. 
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soens
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 21:38:54
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yorolpal
But the number of folks who refer to themselves as musicians has grown exponentially. Whether that's good or bad is a whole nother thing:-)
I'm no musician, songwriter, or recording engineer. But I play one at home.
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craigb
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/06 23:32:37
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MakeShift
MC DJ Bapu-o-matic?
Ewwweee.......where can I get one.
It might be an add-on to ST3...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Kylotan
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/07 06:45:38
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As far as I'm concerned, this is almost entirely down to piracy. I've seen that my band has many listeners who have not paid for our music, and who enjoy it on a regular basis. They still love music and listen to it a lot - it just costs them nothing.
Then there are the people who pay for streaming services and think that supports the artist, but they'd have to stream our album about 200 times for us to get the same money that we would have if they bought the cd - and in all the time I've been listening to music, there is no single album that I have listened to that many times. There's no way that streaming revenue can match sales revenue while the price per stream is so low. But streaming has to compete with piracy so it's unlikely that they will raise their subscription prices significantly.
Our main revenue stream is still from CDs. We have the type of fan that tends to prefer a physical product and prefers albums to singles, so we're lucky in that regard. But we can't sell enough CDs to cover our costs. It's a difficult time to try and be a musician.
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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Hemul
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/07 07:34:47
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Has it ever been different though? For every band that "made it", how many others always remained unsuccessful, gave up, or continued playing within their local scene as a hobby or second income. It was always only a select few that could really live as musicians and fewer still that got rich.
Why so much grumpyness in this thread? I personally think it's great that so many people can and do make music - for fun, in their free time, for friends, for their community, for strangers on the internet... More possibilities than ever. There'll be enough of the music industry left over to keep a steady supply of mass compatible pop, rock, country etc going for the radio and itunes frontpage, and that will still make a few people rich... There will always be a market for touring bands as well. But on top of that, what an excellent time to discover all these quirky, independent bands and musicians, what a great time to produce music when you can buy a near professional studio for about a grand. If music is headed away from being an industry back to something social that people do for other people - I don't mind, to be honest.
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Kylotan
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/07 09:23:45
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Yes, I hear a lot of people say, "has it ever been different", but they're missing the scale of the problem. To pick some numbers out of the air - it used to be that maybe 1% of musicians would make it big, 4% would stay small but maybe make a living from it anyway, 15% would at least cover their costs while never really becoming a touring act, and the other 80% would go nowhere or just treat it as a hobby. Now, it's more like 0.1% make it big, 0.9% stay small but make a reasonable living, 2% just cover their costs, and 97% go nowhere. And this is despite people's music reaching an ever-wider audience. There will always be a market for touring bands as well. The market for touring bands is collapsing, except at the very top. In the past, many tours would only happen because record labels would partially fund the tour as marketing for the latest album. Now that record sales have tanked, labels can't provide tour support, so lots of bands can no longer play gigs. Venues are closing and people are turning to YouTube and Spotify to discover new acts instead of going to see some fresh names at a gig. If music is headed away from being an industry back to something social that people do for other people - I don't mind, to be honest. I wouldn't mind if it didn't cost so much money to do. Our last album cost us £2000 to make, but we're lucky in that we all have day jobs and can just about afford that. What about younger kids who, in some cases, are better musicians than us, but can't afford that sort of outlay? And as for being 'social', we can't get out and play to people because the live market is collapsing. People want music on their phones and computers, or at festivals where you typically have to pay to play or hope you know the right person to pull some strings. The relative abundance of cheap music for everybody may seem like a utopia but it hides some real problems, namely that it is pushing musicians out. In a few years we may see that the supply of good new music is drying up as musicians decide not to continue to throw thousands at making something that other people will take without a second thought.
post edited by Kylotan - 2014/07/07 09:47:21
Sonar Platinum (Newburyport) / Win 8.1 64bit / Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 / Absynth / Kontakt / Play / Superior Drummer 2 / ESP LTD guitar / etc Twilight's Embrace - gothic/death metal | Other works - instrumental/soundtracks
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yorolpal
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Re: Music Sales Continue to Plunge
2014/07/07 11:08:16
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It's kinda funny that the thing we all are plugged into and that allows us to have literally global reach and scope is the thing that is eating us alive at a fairly rapid pace. Our capacity to change to accommodate each new shifting paradigm is being outrun by the speed at which whole industries are being destroyed or transmogrified. Heck, even a hardware driven service like taxi cabs is in danger now due to cell phones and the web. I have no doubt that "the man who has the gold" will eventually find a way to re-monetize everything but right now it's a fairly scary head scratcher. How do we get the toothpaste back in the tube?
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