peter47
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Music collaboration question
hello everyone, so a collaboration that may have been asked before, but is there ways to collaborate with another person(s) with own projects?, the scenario i mean is let's suppose i am working on a new song, and i want to screen share my session with someone and they can look at my session and participate online and vice versa..i know some years back pro tools had a program called "glass" or "glass room" i think where that was possible...if you paid for it!! can you do this on skype? there is a program calle voice meeter where you can share audio from a session through skype but that is all i have found up to know...any ideas please!!!!
regards Peter
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Starise
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/25 19:19:48
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There are a few web sites out there that allow a person to directly link up with another user online and trade audio tracks. The technology is all dependent on the speed of each internet connection. This is supposed to have the feel of a real time session.
In reality it seemed a bit clunky to me. Maybe I didn't dig deep enough. I really don't know more than that. Maybe someone else can answer. At the time I checked this out I thought it wasn't technically far enough along to be practical. Still doesn't seem as good as simply trading tracks using Google Drive or Drop Box.
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peter47
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 13:31:53
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what are the names of the programs you tested please?
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Randy P
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 15:13:48
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I'll throw out a suggestion here as a workaround. Send your collaborator the tracks via dropbox, and then Skype once they have it loaded into their DAW. Due to varying internet speeds, realtime collaboration is not really viable yet in my experience.
What has worked for me on occasion is sending or receiving tracks, then talking on the phone with each other and discussing ideas about the tracks. Making notes ahead of the calls can help remember ideas or suggestions.
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TheMaartian
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 15:37:13
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stevesweat
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 15:44:34
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I have collaborated with a few people over the web. Used Dropbox mostly - I always send with dropbox - sending wav files. Don't think anyone else was using Sonar, but especially due to the size of a bundle file, I think I would still be inclined to send wav files over bun files. You can send a mix if you want someone to add a part then they can send you the part as a wav (obviously all wav's should start at the same point and include the entire song start to finish for ease of alignment).
I had a guy send me three tracks recently - two droning synth-y tracks and a simple percussion "metronome" track. I recorded a drum part onto 8 separate tracks (kick, snare etc.) and 2 fretless bass tracks. I sent him the individual drum tracks as well as 2 mixes of those drum tracks, dry and with effects. Plus the two bass tracks. I also sent a spoken word track I put together with some found internet speeches, unasked for and probably won't be used. I made a mix of everything for myself and gave him a copy of that, too. Not sure what he's doing/done with it all, if anything. Will be interesting to see/hear.
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mettelus
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 15:59:00
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+1 to Dropbox. Audio over internet is poor in general, and latency will preclude "real time." Sending wav files so they can listen/contribute from their preferred setup is ideal (for all parties).
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peter47
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 17:17:53
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great information shared here..it seems the consensus is with current technology as it stands the best option is via google drive/drop box but i would wager in the very near future real time collaboration will be possible..it would be great to be able to do a session with someone else as if you where actually in there home sitting next to each other except "they" are in USA and you are in UK as an example
regards Peter (who sits at home in tiny Denmark)!
sonar platinum, quad core 8 gig acer, washburn bass, epiphone gibson and sg guitar, roland rs-70 keys, ibanez acoustic, behringer c1 mic, roland vm-3100 pro mixer...and more plug-ins then a power station
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peter47
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 19:15:18
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well i looked at jamkazam, it's not bad at all but not quite what i had in mind i was thinking more in terms off being able to directly access another persons cakewalk session from there comp, as if it was on there own computer, like adding a audio/midi track or adjusting plugins, editing tracks that sort of thing on a screen share basis for example i have a session going and the other person is looking at my session on there computer and decides it needs a better bass track, so he suggests that he deletes the current bass track and records the bass part from his computer on to my session or vice versa now that would be a cool collaboration...?? is this possible in this day and age
regards Peter
sonar platinum, quad core 8 gig acer, washburn bass, epiphone gibson and sg guitar, roland rs-70 keys, ibanez acoustic, behringer c1 mic, roland vm-3100 pro mixer...and more plug-ins then a power station
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/26 19:33:13
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I share files with folks using Dropbox all the time, and I will almost always send an MP3 mix of the project, that the other(s) can import into whatever recording software they happen to use, then they record whatever track(s) needed, then they would export each individual track that they recorded as a Broadcast Wave file, so that it/they can be imported by me back into the original Sonar project.
Since I already have each track that went into my exported MP3 file, as separate tracks in my master project in Sonar, there is no need to send them anything other than something for them to listen to while recording their actual parts. Then, when I import each broadcast wave file for each track they recorded, importing them into my project will put them in the correct location.
Saves a lot of bandwidth doing as above.
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Starise
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 14:14:30
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If you have a large enough cloud file in Google drive or Drop box you could keep a copy of a Sonar project you are working on. This would need to be saved with all audio files.
If the other person or persons use different 3rd party plug ins this will be an issue. I would use only the Pro Channel and Cakewalk plug ins to make it simple. All parties should use the same versions of programs so there is no conflict here.
The gains from this are multiple people can update the same project. Every project then needs to be exported back into the online folder designating the changes. No this isn't Skype , but it allows work within the same project by multiple people. This might test patience since the co mixer has changed a lot of the settings you made.It could be a good thing.
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tlw
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 14:40:42
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There are several ways to share access to a Windows PC across the internet, some like remote desktop and the remote assistance services are built into Windows. But none of them are anything like 'real time' enough for people to work on a remote DAW as if they're both sitting at the same PC on an 802.11ac or gigabit LAN, never mind the internet. Multi-player games work across the net, but they are very different things to a DAW. For a start, fhe processing load is spread across all the PCs involved as each runs its own copy of the game, while you'd need one copy of Sonar to handle everything.
Opening up a router and PC firewall to receive incoming logons that allow control of the PC from the internet also comes with some very serious security risks unless the connection is only allowed via a secure VPN with strong security, and even then might still be vulnerable. There are huge malicious botnets that spend 24 hours a day trawling for open ports that allow remote access and if one is found it will come under continuous automated attack.
And if the internet acccounts involved have upload/download data limits multi-track audio can eat into the allowance very quickly indeed, it's a lot of data and every time the project is played the audio data will get streamed.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 15:19:25
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☄ Helpfulby glennstanton 2017/04/28 13:18:59
Ed (Bapu) Kocol introduced me to a good way of collaborating (if all parties have Sonar) - send a 'tracking shell'; the CWP file with markers, BPM and time sigs set, plus a mix WAV to track to. Pop the mix WAV in the tracking shell, insert a new track to record yourself, and away you go. Makes things very straightforward. We do this via Dropbox with a shared folder.
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peter47
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 17:16:20
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i think the technology for what i am looking for is way off in the future by the sounds of things...i think dropbox or google drive and a convo over skype is the best way at present!!!
regards Peter
sonar platinum, quad core 8 gig acer, washburn bass, epiphone gibson and sg guitar, roland rs-70 keys, ibanez acoustic, behringer c1 mic, roland vm-3100 pro mixer...and more plug-ins then a power station
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bapu
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 21:59:49
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robert_e_bone
I share files with folks using Dropbox all the time, and I will almost always send an MP3 mix of the project, that the other(s) can import into whatever recording software they happen to use, then they record whatever track(s) needed, then they would export each individual track that they recorded as a Broadcast Wave file, so that it/they can be imported by me back into the original Sonar project.
Bob Bone
Bob, I groan every time I read this about using mp3s to track to. Did you know that and mp3 contains header information at the beginning of the file that throws the alignment off by ~72 samples (IIRC the number correctly)? It's just audible enough to make a difference. and a no-CBR mp3 will also drift over time. Simple proof can be had thusly. Make a two measure project. Create a MIDI track with a drum hit precisely on beats 2 and 4 of both measures. Freeze the track (just to be able to see the wavform). Export the track to mp3. Import the mp3 right along side the frozen WAV file. Once you see that they are not perfect aligned, you will never send an mp3 for someone to track to unless you are just creating ambient sounds that do not rely on timing at all  .
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tlw
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 22:34:05
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Compared to the old way of collaborating - spool up a smpte striped tape and have it couriered to your collaborator to record their stuff on their tape deck, get it sent back again, do some more work and repeat, a mere 72 samples and mp3 amounts of drift is pretty good.
Compared to exchanging stuff on cassette tapes it's a miraculously low error.
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bapu
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 22:40:02
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okeee dokie then.
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bapu
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/27 22:41:11
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tlw
Compared to the old way of collaborating - spool up a smpte striped tape and have it couriered to your collaborator to record their stuff on their tape deck, get it sent back again, do some more work and repeat, a mere 72 samples and mp3 amounts of drift is pretty good.
Compared to exchanging stuff on cassette tapes it's a miraculously low error.
Oh, you play jazz then? 
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quantumeffect
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/28 01:45:29
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bapu
tlw
Compared to the old way of collaborating - spool up a smpte striped tape and have it couriered to your collaborator to record their stuff on their tape deck, get it sent back again, do some more work and repeat, a mere 72 samples and mp3 amounts of drift is pretty good.
Compared to exchanging stuff on cassette tapes it's a miraculously low error.
Oh, you play jazz then?
... not to mention the good ol' days of wax cylinders and the pony express.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/28 02:45:10
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2017/04/28 13:42:47
PPFFFTT! How about everybody trying to cram it all onto 4 tracks? Or sending SMOKE SIGNALS, where you would adjust your gain by throwing LOGS on the fire?
Hee hee
PS - THANKS, Bapu - I'll stick to Broadcast Wave files moving forward. Most of the time I do that, or am working with folks that also have Sonar, where I will send a stripped down and bounced version of a given project, with markers and such, the file sizes are still really small, compared to sending a full project back and forth - which is really what I had been getting at.
Bob Bone
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Slugbaby
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Re: Music collaboration question
2017/04/28 13:24:28
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robert_e_bone
I share files with folks using Dropbox all the time, and I will almost always send an MP3 mix of the project, that the other(s) can import into whatever recording software they happen to use, then they record whatever track(s) needed, then they would export each individual track that they recorded as a Broadcast Wave file, so that it/they can be imported by me back into the original Sonar project.
Since I already have each track that went into my exported MP3 file, as separate tracks in my master project in Sonar, there is no need to send them anything other than something for them to listen to while recording their actual parts. Then, when I import each broadcast wave file for each track they recorded, importing them into my project will put them in the correct location.
Saves a lot of bandwidth doing as above.
Bob Bone
This is what I've done the odd time I've collaborated. Except that we just emailed the WAV files to the person building the mix instead of using Dropbox.
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