My Apology Again

I don't know how often I can keep this up...

I'm sorry I'm so down on X1... It does not work well for me in any way...

Cakewalk are not stepping up to the plate to even discuss these issues so I have no idea where they stand...

I guess they're too busy finding answers to all these issues to be able to talk at NAMM...

I don't wish to offend anyone so I'm sorry if I have. I keep trying to accept the new changes, but after each days frustratingly slow work I find myself angry... and that's not a good thing. I've tried to work on a few different types of pieces to see if I felt differently doing different work, but I run into the same issues everywhere...

Please forgive me, as I hope I can forgive Cakewalk... I'm sure they had good reasons for their' plan even if I don't agree (at all)...

I will continue trying X1a with the pieces I've moved into it, but for all else I'm back to 8.5.3... there are still bus there but the workflow is so much faster and more intuituve that I just don't see any advantages to X1... I like the Prochannel, but I'll have to live with my old trusted plugins which work fine anyway...

I have not suggested any of my students or clients move on to X1 as I already know they will be more frustrated than I am...

Please.... Somehow make some magic... Maybe an "8.5 mode" where we can switch the interface back! I don't know what we'd gain as the only step forward as far as actual tools is the Prochannel... Everything else was about changing where/how to access tools we have and leaving new bug trails everywhere...

I intended this as an apology and find myself still ranting... I'm sorry I just can't get this stuff out of my head...

Keni

Maybe they're still on vacation.

I know I am until Monday.  And I'll be damned if I'm gonna even check my work email until then!

Ultimately X1 will be the way to go.  Sonar was in need of a face lift and there's a lot of promise in X1.  However there are some issues with X1 to be grappled with: 
 
- getting used to its new workflow paradigms that are indeed improvements (this takes user learning time)

- an upgrade for some of the new workflow paradigms that fall short for some users (this means Cakewalk development time)

- a patch that fixes new bugs that have cropped up in this release (more work for Cakewalk).

I really think that X1 will work out for the best in the long run.  The more I play with it, the more I like it.  But, for now, the more I feel I need to use 8.5.3 to get things done because it's the stable devil I know, and I can work around it.

VariousArtist


Ultimately X1 will be the way to go.  Sonar was in need of a face lift and there's a lot of promise in X1.  However there are some issues with X1 to be grappled with: 

- getting used to its new workflow paradigms that are indeed improvements (this takes user learning time)

- an upgrade for some of the new workflow paradigms that fall short for some users (this means Cakewalk development time)

- a patch that fixes new bugs that have cropped up in this release (more work for Cakewalk).

I really think that X1 will work out for the best in the long run.  The more I play with it, the more I like it.  But, for now, the more I feel I need to use 8.5.3 to get things done because it's the stable devil I know, and I can work around it.

I agree with all of that, in general.  A lot of this rests upon CW to take care of things.  So we'll see how things go.
 
 

spanky


I'm sorry you're having problems Keni, I really am, but being so vague will not find you any help. This forum is full of people willing and able to help. Why don't you start with just one problem you have, see if someone can help remedy it, then go from there?

Keni has made numerous specific posts about his problems. Just do a search of posts by him if you feel like trying to help with any particular one.

It took until, what was it, march before SONAR 8.5 was all patched up and super solid.

It's the hell week for retail/consumer oriented companies right now anyways. I doubt much gets done besides customer service related stuff. I'm giving the bakers some time, they have families too.

I have issues with X1 but I still have a fully operational 8.5.3 system. I'm not loosing any business. It's silly to switch a DAW to a 1.0 release in a commercial environment anyways without proofing it. Try to do that as a network admin and you'd be fired on day 1.

I guess there's some things regarding the Views and the "newness" of the new GUI and multidock that simply eludes me.  Someone above mentioned how they loved how the views (i.e. PRV and CV, etc...) "collapse" out of view with a keystroke or two.  They did that in most of the previous iterations of Sonar too.  To get the PRV to pop up on my active track I used to hit ctrl-q, my custom keybinding.  Then to close it completely I just clicked on the little x in the top right corner of the view.  Now, the multidock is another bar on screen that "holds" these views but is still visible and can get cluttered and confusing.  I also had an issue today while in the CV when I brought up the GUI of my FabFilter Pro-L limiter to tweak.  It wouldn't stop docking.  It would appear in the center of the screen and if I moved it...so I could see the meter in the track I was working on...it docked.  I never could get it to stop.  Plus, when it docked it took up the whole screen.  I honestly do not get the "efficiency" of the multidock nor do I understand the functionality in any way of "screensets".  I've tried to use them...heck, even understand them and I just don't get it.  That's just me.  There's an awful lot to like in X1 but there's an awful lot that seems like solutions in search of a problem to me.

I'm getting a kick out of some posters complaining that some of us have problems and are frustrated.

Me too. Its so odd. Most forums I know seem to want to discuss, and people agree to disagree - even if they do so more rudely than typically happens here.

Here it seems like people are not secure in their own opinion and have to question everyone who does not feel the same - as if their experience somehow invalidates a perfectly reasonable but contradictory opinion. Its funny that people need to "balance out" one type of post or "undo the misinformation" type of thing over and over- usually without giving any consideration to the depth and detail of a complaint or compliment. If no one was ever critical or negative, the world would be one happier and dumber (and more false) place than it already is - and that much closer to disaster and absence of all quality.

Anyway to Keni, please keep voicing your complaints and problems - as we need brave people to explore both the benefits and weaknesses of X1 and provide feedback to Cakewalk. Don't apologize for your opinion!

Happy New Year all!

D 

Scott Lee


"as I already know they will be more frustrated than I am"

Keni - I find the UI amazing and am enjoying the new workflow to prior versions of Sonar. I dont think that all your clients and or students will share your view on this matter.

What I do agree with you on is Cakewalks silence about showstopping bugs and some serious issues folks are having with the software. I made a plea thread about this very issue, it is vital we know whats planned for X1 before they even think about an X2.

Hi Scott... I'm very glad that this is working for you. We each work differently... But I already know how my associates work and I'm very certain they're not gonna like this... I know because they work much as I do... As do most of the users I know... We all have differences, but also many similarities...

I hate not supporting cake as I know they need the upgrades and sales to continue... But this new release is as much a major step backwards for many as it is forward for others. I can't see what would make this release any better for you in work flow... But I guess you find it so...

Maybe some of the things you think of as bugs are what I'm thinking as major design flaws... this snap2grid is intolerable! the numerous places that so many extra clicks are required that I get half the work doen in the same amount of time  as I use to even after I know where the tools have been moved to...

The smart tool in PRV isn't too bad, but all the myriad of key-cluster commands to make it practical  is far too unwieldy for me... I'll be deleting notes instead of muting them forever! I'll be spending minutes getting at data to see prior to adjust instead of the single second it takes in 8.5.3... For that matter, the PRV isn't much different than it was.  I had zero problems with the way it is in 8.5.3 outside of bugs that now will never be fixed... Instead I still have those same bugs and an onslaught of new bugs and so much extra "work" that it's quite a show stopper here... I'm learning my way around it, so it's not finding the tools anymore... It's the working with them that is no longer intuitive for me nor conducive to my work. The select tool in 8.5's PRV allowed me to edit all parameters of a note with a single tool and no key clusters.... then with a few clusters (which I could customize extensively) I could stretch it further... I never think about changing tools when I'm there...

I don't use a lot of windows open at any given time... I prefer a single view at a time (unless I have multi-monitor at the time)... I have zero need of the multidock and the browser is only my synth rack (I think I said this earlier... sorry)... tho since I wrote that earlier I tried my idea of floating it and simply opening it when I needed it.

I'm digressing due to my frustration and I apologize. I don't care about the colors much (tho it's more of a pain right now wirh so many I can't customize) and I could live with the dock/browse/inspect thingies an dleave them out of my way, But some of these changes are too ridiculous for me to believe... Who really thought a single snap was better???????


I want to like it.... I looked forward to it's release.. even after seeing the various videos and realizing how little was of use to me... But now being exposed to it is a far different story...

If it's the Prochannel or it's "ease of use" that's close to the only advantage I've found yet.... and I'm not using it as I'm not sure I'll continue using X1 at this point... So I need an easy path back to 8.5.3 "in case"...

If there is really that large a user base that truly prefers x1, maybe Cakewalk need to rethink it as an upgrade and instead support both as two separate, and continuing softwares to maintain and sell...

Are they playing the microsoft/apple game where both ends are trying to become more like each other ending in a place that nobody wants because it's not complete... It's halfway somewhere else...

I know that Cakewalk has suprozed me many times (pleasantly) and I can only hope that they will do this with X1b...

PeterMc


You've reminded me of another old joke (originally a blonde joke, but could be Irish, Polish, drummers, or, heaven forbid, even Australian). A person of unspecified gender, race, religion and nationality complains to the doctor that when they touch their left leg it hurts, when they press on the top of their head it hurts, even touching the tip of their nose hurts. In fact every part of their body hurts when they touch it. What could possibly cause such a widespread pain response? The doctor carefully explains to the distraught patient that they have hurt their finger.

That is funny!
 

I find the bugs to be annoying but mostly managable. I have not had that many crashes and for the most part, it's pretty stable. I'm hoping for the best as well with the next patches. It leaves one wondering though why some bugs even made it past beta testing. Did they beta test this?

I use Zoomtext (or would at least like to with X1) and I can't do simple things. Check this out. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14693440/MVI_1046.AVI

I'm not sure if it's X1 or Zoomtext. My guess would be X1 because I don't have any problems in 8.5.3 with this. It would not be so bad if that little white box that pops up everytime you adjust a knob or fader actually had information that helped me with what the knobs setting was and changing to.

For the most part though, extra clicks for everything aside, I like X1 and hope that it improves.
 
BTW - I've contacted both Cakewalk and AI Squared (makers of Zoomtext) about this. Cakewalk contacted me and suggested I set my DPI to 96. That's the normal setting and I never changed it. Obviously, this tech did not read or even try to understand anything. All she did was send me an email (which I cannot respond to) with her DPI suggestion. Thanks for nothing. Hopefully this will be fixed.