Serious_Noize!
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My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
This will probably get either deleted or removed, but it should'nt because it's actually a positive and helpful mention of certain things about BandLab <- The spell checker still shows the word BandLab caps or not as wrong, that should be fixed. Anyway. I decided to post some of my songs on BandLab just to see what happened. I was surprised at the response. And when I say "RESPONSE" I don't mean getting a lot of listens or replies or nothing like that. What I mean is people who actually care about music responding in a civilized manner. There were no "YOUR MIX NEEDS FIXING BS", or "YOU NEED TO FIX THE BASS BECAUSE MY SPEAKERS ARE NOT THAT GOOD AND I AM JEALOUS" type of CRAP that you experience with the cake forums in some instances. It was real people listening and replying to what they hear with your music. As for my experience with Sound Cloud. I would like to reply about that also. I contacted their support and they said "There is nothing we can do about it" and what happened to me was that I had a bunch of people with links to PORN sites follow me and I did not want that LINKED to my account on sound Cloud, Sound Cloud support said "There is nothing we can do about that", so that is why I don't use Sound Cloud anymore at all and never will again. As for Bandlab, I see they have a blocking feature. I like that for the reasons I mentioned above here. As for BandLab, while I like the negative feedback on songs and can handle the critics. The thing I like about it is that when you post your songs on their you have real people you don't know giving feedback. Unlike a FORUM like the Cake songs forum where their possibly might be mixed feelings on how they feel about your sound and such things. The thing I DO NOT LIKE ABOUT BANDLAB. AND EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW THIS :::::::::::: When you add or upload a finished song to the site, you are presented with an option called "FORK", as of my last few uploads of my songs it appears to be turned OFF BY default. But what "FORK" means is AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD. That's a big deal. Either way, my experience thus far adding my songs to Bandlab has been great. 10000x's better than SoundCloud no doubt. Why is this related to Sonar? Because I when you finish your music with Sonar, or Cakewalk By BandLab, this is the result. In my case, I am still using Sonar Platinum last version because I don't want two versions of the same daw on my PC. I don't have the need after seeing the latest comparison chart posted by Meng. "Thank you Meng BTW". When there is a reason for me to "UPGRADE" if there is ever an upgrade, so to speak using Bandlab assistant and Cakewalk by Bandlab then I will. My review? Bandlab is the real deal when it comes to sharing your songs to be heard, but I would suggest they REALLY need to change that "FORK" option to "CAN BE DOWNLOADED FREELY BY OTHERS". No need to be free speak and create a new language trying to be HIP, just be honest if you can really deliver the service. So far they can do so. It appears that by default if you share a song the "FORK" option or "Allow for download is turned off. That's a good thing I guess. Bobby My Bandlab Page : https://www.bandlab.com/user924a9571
post edited by Serious_Noize! - 2018/04/26 23:47:21
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mudgel
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 01:18:47
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I think the idea behind BandLab is for collaboration not just uploading your music for others to listen to.
The reason the term fork is used (I’m guessing now), is that other platforms like Github also use this term and it’s an indication that the original file is now been divided into another branch that will be developed differently, hence literally a fork in development. It also provides a point you can go back to.
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stratman70
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 01:50:59
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☄ Helpfulby Toddskins 2018/04/27 01:56:05
I never saw all this hostility you are talking about on the CW Song forum. Criticism, yes but isn't that the idea? from the music I have listened to on Bandlab isn't very good imho. Like beginner type loop stuff.
On CW Song forum you will get MORE critics because the bar is higher, as in lots of really good musicians, engineers, etc. Comparatively speaking of course.
Bandlab you get zillions of "everything". Not saying it is all bad but the number of very amateurish songs is really high.
BUT, there is also NOTHING wrong with that. We all started somewhere.........Thats what the world of music is all about!
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iRelevant
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 02:16:43
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Serious_Noize!
[...]
The thing I DO NOT LIKE ABOUT BANDLAB. AND EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW THIS ::::::::::::
When you add or upload a finished song to the site, you are presented with an option called "FORK", as of my last few uploads of my songs it appears to be turned OFF BY default. But what "FORK" means is AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD. That's a big deal.
[...]
In my case, I am still using Sonar Platinum last version because I don't want two version of the same daw on my PC. I don't have the need after seeing the latest comparison chart posted by Meng. When there is a reason for me to "UPGRADE" so to speak using Bandlab assistant then I will.
My review? Bandlab is the real deal when it comes to sharing your songs to be heard, but I would suggest they REALLY need to change that "FORK" option to "CAN BE DOWNLOADED FREELY BY OTHERS". No need to be free speak and create a new language trying to be HIP, just be honest if you can really deliver the service.
It's my understanding that if you make your project FORKable, you also open it up to free use and interpretation to other users. I think it is good that this option is off by default, so that you have a chance of actively sharing your project in such a manner if you want to. About the two DAW's, as mentioned else where plenty of times, you will need to have both installed at the same time if you want to use the features exclusive to Platinum in CbB. There is no point in waiting around with upgrading to CbB. I would have a look at the comparison chart posted by Meng, it will make things a bit clearer. - Sven
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iRelevant
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 02:30:42
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stratman70
I never saw all this hostility you are talking about on the CW Song forum. Criticism, yes but isn't that the idea? from the music I have listened to on Bandlab isn't very good imho. Like beginner type loop stuff.
On CW Song forum you will get MORE critics because the bar is higher, as in lots of really good musicians, engineers, etc. Comparatively speaking of course.
Bandlab you get zillions of "everything". Not saying it is all bad but the number of very amateurish songs is really high.
BUT, there is also NOTHING wrong with that. We all started somewhere.........Thats what the world of music is all about!
I don't share your impression from listening to music on BandLab, there are many pearls to be found. And I enjoy putting out material as well as listening to others work. Only issue I'm having with it, is that its a bit difficult to zone in on the type of songs that are of interest ... mainly due to an almost spam like classification style of some artist. I really don't understand what some people hope to gain by putting a obvious Rap song in the Blues Section FI.
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Larry Jones
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 04:04:00
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iRelevant
I really don't understand what some people hope to gain by putting a obvious Rap song in the Blues Section FI.
Yes, I noticed that, too. It seems that Bandlab users have no idea what style they are working in. I've mentioned this here before. I had a hard time finding any musicians I might be able to collaborate with, or even any music I wanted to hear. It may be this poor organization that makes the site appear to be full of subpar musicians. They're just not not where you expect them to be. Very democratic, though, letting everybody decide what the word "genre" means. 
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Grem
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 04:22:53
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I like BandLab. I have come across some really good stuff. Got hooked up with some people I am working with.
I was excited at the new 'social' site that BL was offering. I looked around and learned how to use it and decided I would try a song out. I put a song up and got some great people to help out. I also happen to get a guy that can sing and wants to work with me and some others. In fact, the last few weeks has been all about me doing music that revolved around BandLab!! Who would have thought that two weeks ago?!! Not me for sure.
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/26 23:51:36
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mudgel
I think the idea behind BandLab is for collaboration not just uploading your music for others to listen to.
The reason the term fork is used (I’m guessing now), is that other platforms like Github also use this term and it’s an indication that the original file is now been divided into another branch that will be developed differently, hence literally a fork in development. It also provides a point you can go back to.
While I get what you are saying, think about it for a second, the important part being : "Your music for others to listen to". Thank you for the input on the term Fork. Your probably right about that. I'm old and not in the know and jargon stuff now days. It would be nice if rather than using Jargon or specific terms per their own inside train of thought that they just say what the option is. Or in other words, I don't want to learn a new language to have to use a service or site or anything. Imagine if your bank decided to do such things, or the post office or everywhere you went decided to do such things. It's just not a good idea in my opinion. But thank you for explaining why.
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 00:02:29
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stratman70
I never saw all this hostility you are talking about on the CW Song forum. Criticism, yes but isn't that the idea? from the music I have listened to on Bandlab isn't very good imho. Like beginner type loop stuff.
On CW Song forum you will get MORE critics because the bar is higher, as in lots of really good musicians, engineers, etc. Comparatively speaking of course.
Bandlab you get zillions of "everything". Not saying it is all bad but the number of very amateurish songs is really high.
BUT, there is also NOTHING wrong with that. We all started somewhere.........Thats what the world of music is all about!
I get that you never did, and you have this idea that because you only saw Criticism and took things that way. I'm happy for you having that experience and I mean that in a kind way. But I will say, there are friends of mine, who got flamed and picked on and bullied at times to the point they stopped using the forums altogether. What you need to realize and look : The problem with the songs forum is when you mention anything toward someones song as a critic and that person gets upset, the next time you post or share a song you automatically open an avenue for that person who did not like your revue to take aim and flame at you regardless of whether they listen to your music or not. My point about that subject is not about somebody saying it needs more treble or bass or louder vocals or off tune or just isn't that good. My point is, I have seen episodes where people regardless of who they are and there music get completely flamed and thrown off on by a certain CLICK group. You may not have seen it. Lucky for you, but I have and I know a couple of people who experienced that issue. That's in the past, but that is what I was referring to. As for my experience thus far with BandLab, people just listen to the music and they have said : "Hey you need this or that", no PERSONAL ATTACKS is what I am getting at because you respond by saying : "I don't agree". Either way the Cakewalk songs forums from what I gather, or at least as I was told by someone in the know were ran for the most part by some users. So somebody not liking someones opinion who was really not nice telling them to go potty train tells me a lot as to how the cakewalk songs forums have worked in the last few years. BandLab is really cool! I like it. Best thing that could have ever happened to Cakewalk in my opinion.
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tobiaslindahl
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 10:02:50
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The thing with "forking" and making songs available to download, isn't that kind of a non issue? Once something is put online, downloadable or streaming, it is a small thing to save that material on a computer anyway. If someone really wants to I mean. Lots of software around to record anything streaming, you just play the song and record it and voila, its downloaded. Also, once put online, people can listen and "steal" it just by hearing it, as been done since the birth of the radio.
Best thing is to take comfort in the fact that 99.99999% of songs realeased will not suffer because they will not become anything popular anyway and you wont lose anything in the process. That is kind of the only approach to take imo. The more people it reaches, through streaming, downloading, stealing or whatever the better. IF you want to put music online that is.
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listen
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 10:22:56
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Good post - thanks for the insight...
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Starise
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 16:00:53
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Larry Jones
iRelevant
I really don't understand what some people hope to gain by putting a obvious Rap song in the Blues Section FI.
Yes, I noticed that, too. It seems that Bandlab users have no idea what style they are working in. I've mentioned this here before. I had a hard time finding any musicians I might be able to collaborate with, or even any music I wanted to hear. It may be this poor organization that makes the site appear to be full of subpar musicians. They're just not not where you expect them to be. Very democratic, though, letting everybody decide what the word "genre" means.
I have encountered this regularly on Soundcloud as well. I know we aren't discussing SC, however I thought a good comparison could be made. Both are highly democratic placing the genre decisions in the hands of the Users. Both are predominately musicians and composers or those that wanna be. It is so bad on SC that when you attempt to stream certain genre you might get anything. It is basically unusable to me. I'm not sure how to narrow both genre and the types of collaborators you are looking for. It seems a lot of the top needs to be skimmed in order to find it. If you "fork" anything be prepared to lower your expectations. If it's something you worked hard on and value, don't do it. The usefulness to me personally is probably as an idea pad. Once you upload there isn't presently much control. This is bad for me because I'm always re working tracks in a mix. You can delete a track and upload a new one though. I WANT to like it. Not really flowing well for me yet. Maybe with time.
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jpetersen
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 16:37:35
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Perhaps Meng could approach LandR and ask if they will license their
Genre-Recognition artificial intelligence engine?
Only need to catch a reasonable percentage to raise the quality-of-experience
and give BandLab a unique selling point.
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poetnprophet
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 20:39:13
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One thing I noticed is that the default genre is Other, so if you're uploading from your phone it's easily overlooked. I actually made that mistake my first couple uploads.
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iRelevant
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 21:26:27
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jpetersen
Perhaps Meng could approach LandR and ask if they will license their
Genre-Recognition artificial intelligence engine?
Only need to catch a reasonable percentage to raise the quality-of-experience
and give BandLab a unique selling point.
I don't have much belief in this proposal, and think I would become pissed off if my classification get's over ridden by supposed AI. There are multi-genre songs, and it is ultimately a human judgment call whether as song is Rap with Reggae elements, or a Reggae song with Rap elements. I think it would be better do find a way to discourage obvious erroneous classification by the publisher. To communicate why this is not in anybody's interest.
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msmcleod
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 22:24:42
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iRelevant
jpetersen
Perhaps Meng could approach LandR and ask if they will license their
Genre-Recognition artificial intelligence engine?
Only need to catch a reasonable percentage to raise the quality-of-experience
and give BandLab a unique selling point.
I don't have much belief in this proposal, and think I would become pissed off if my classification get's over ridden by supposed AI. There are multi-genre songs, and it is ultimately a human judgment call whether as song is Rap with Reggae elements, or a Reggae song with Rap elements. I think it would be better do find a way to discourage obvious erroneous classification by the publisher. To communicate why this is not in anybody's interest.
I agree, although BandLab could help by offering sub-genres, and allowing you to pick more than one of them. The genres as they stand are far too generic. M.
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chris.r
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/27 23:53:37
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msmcleodI agree, although BandLab could help by offering sub-genres, and allowing you to pick more than one of them. The genres as they stand are far too generic. +100
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Serious_Noize!
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 00:15:24
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I want to make one think perfectly clear. The reason I stopped using Sound Cloud was because I had some people I have no idea who they were select FOLLOW my account and when you clicked their user names there were links to porn sites. I absolutely DID NOT LIKE THAT AT ALL! As I believe none of you would either. I contacted Sound Cloud and asked them how to remove them and what I might could possibly do and was told "There is nothing we can do at this time because our site simply is just not setup to do so".
That's the first thing I looked at with BandLab, the Blocking option. I like that for this very reason that I mention above in this post.
Thus far, or so far, or however the wheel turns, or the orchard blooms, or the grass grows, or that old steam engine still keeps on moving and the old town drunk keeps on chugging..
I really like Bandlab, I just wish even they want to call "FORK" something that they would put something to the side of it saying something like [This allows others to download your music and gives up your rights]. Although as per my personal experience so far the "FORK" option seem to be by default turned OFF. But who's to say in the future per their terms an era is not made.......
Either way, or whatever the case. I like Bandlab's site, and the idea of working with others that I don't know to create some tunes who are looking to work with others might be a great learning experience for me.
That being said, the navigation actions of Bandlab's site is really not straight forward, much like the Fork issue I mentioned earlier.
When you click your user name you should see all of your songs post, and especially if you click your username you should be directed straight to your area where your music is posted. I had to save a link to get me where there is only my music that I have posted for others to listen to, just to be able to find them.
That's cool with the Facebook feed to see your followers and people you follow latest songs shares and such things. But it should be made better to find your own songs easier.
Bandlab is cool, don't get me wrong, I'm just pointing out some of my issue's in the hopes while there are people that are in the position the make changes can do so. And I will say their support as I mentioned in another thread was very very good.
Either way, sorry to keep beating a dead horse so to speak, but I just wanted to say a few more things.
Thank you BandLab for listening to me and others first and foremost, because you could have very easily just took off with Cakewalk Sonar Platinum and re-branded it another name and left all of us loyal Cakewalk users in the dirt.
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Kev999
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 00:19:25
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Speaking of genres, "Prog" seems to be noticeable by its absence.
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jpetersen
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 09:58:24
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iRelevant
...I would become pissed off if my classification get's over ridden by supposed AI. There are multi-genre songs, and it is ultimately a human judgment call whether as song is Rap with Reggae elements, or a Reggae song with Rap elements. I think it would be better do find a way to discourage obvious erroneous classification by the publisher. To communicate why this is not in anybody's interest.
You raise the problem of conflicting interests. For consumers, sub-genres help finding material. For artists, sub-genres are hidey-holes that reduce exposure. Artists who put their Rap songs in Country do so knowingly to maximize exposure. They would be pissed off, irrespective of whether man or machine re-categorized their material. But Country fans will be pissed off finding Rap tracks in their Country category. Google base their results (mostly) on algorithms, regardless of who they piss off. An algorithmic solution has the advantage of being for the most part a neutral arbitrator. And hey, paid featured songs can be put over multiple categories as an additional income stream!
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jamesg1213
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 11:31:52
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Kev999
Speaking of genres, "Prog" seems to be noticeable by its absence.
Soundcloud's the same. Searching for 'prog' or 'progressive' gets you EDM.
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TPayton
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 13:57:11
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Kev999
Speaking of genres, "Prog" seems to be noticeable by its absence.
I suppose it is probably not possible to please everyone or cover every contingency, thus we have "other". I personally would like to see a category for Christian music. Although I suppose Christian in this context would refer more to lyrical content than genre, as there is music with Christian content of many varying musical styles. That said, my reaction upon visiting the site was favorable and I am thinking about ways to utilize it.
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iRelevant
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/28 14:39:29
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jpetersen
iRelevant
...I would become pissed off if my classification get's over ridden by supposed AI. There are multi-genre songs, and it is ultimately a human judgment call whether as song is Rap with Reggae elements, or a Reggae song with Rap elements. I think it would be better do find a way to discourage obvious erroneous classification by the publisher. To communicate why this is not in anybody's interest.
You raise the problem of conflicting interests.
For consumers, sub-genres help finding material.
For artists, sub-genres are hidey-holes that reduce exposure.
Artists who put their Rap songs in Country do so knowingly to maximize exposure.
They would be pissed off, irrespective of whether man or machine re-categorized their material.
But Country fans will be pissed off finding Rap tracks in their Country category.
Google base their results (mostly) on algorithms, regardless of who they piss off.
An algorithmic solution has the advantage of being for the most part a neutral arbitrator.
And hey, paid featured songs can be put over multiple categories as an additional income stream!
The main problem is that willfully erroneous categorizing of material is destructive to the usability of the service. The promoter might get a play that he would otherwise not have had, but I doubt he will get a like or a tip for his song. It doesn't take long before you give up on listening based on genre, when every other song is totally out. You will end up with a service with a bunch of promoters to fewer and fewer listeners. Algorithmic and AI solutions, or the ghost in the machine type of solution, may seem appealing initially ... although the results of it will ultimately be blamed on the designer/provider of that service. Which can then be dehumanized as just a "technical decision" ... no judgment involved. Eventually songs will be designed to manipulate these algorithms accordingly. Well ... paid erroneous classified songs, sounds like a recipe for no listeners and bankruptcy :)
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Larry Jones
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/29 01:52:15
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I suspect most Bandlab users don't think about "genres" at all. They think they are making music, period. So if they even notice that they are being asked to categorize their sound, they might not know how to do that, or they might not want to be bothered. When I was starting out (right after the Civil War) the goal of every young songwriter was to get on the radio, but it still took me a couple of years before I saw that radio was extremely segmented, and your music had to fit a segment (genre) or program directors wouldn't listen. Today, radio holds very little sway. The gatekeepers don't have much power, and the kids starting out don't know (and don't need to know) rap from reggae. There are too many of them to moderate, and algorithms won't get it. Bottom line: We are the legacy SONAR users, the last of the old guard. We use the DAW the way recording studios used to be used. The new generation doesn't. Bandlab has rudimentary tools and loops online, and even though they can get SONAR for free now, I'd be surprised if more than 20% of them try it. And they don't care about no stinkin' genres. Maybe instead of having to wade through many, many tracks that are mislabeled or just plain wrong, the Bandlab site could have a section devoted specifically to those trying to find partners to work with, like a musician's contact service, with an online form allowing you (us) to say what we do and what we're looking for, with "genre" being a required field. 
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Frank Harvey
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/29 07:45:49
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Larry Jones
I suspect most ..................................................................
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................Maybe instead of having to wade through many, many tracks that are mislabeled or just plain wrong, the Bandlab site could have a section devoted specifically to those trying to find partners to work with, like a musician's contact service, with an online form allowing you (us) to say what we do and what we're looking for, with "genre" being a required field.
Thanks Larry, There is very much weight in what you are saying. I agree but with perhaps an addendum that.... 'Genres' for such a section ( as you put it ) still need to be carefully explained / defined ..............as a pop-up advisory perhaps .... (ie: Defined insofar as the purposes of Bandlab fluidity and in very basic language/ terms ). cheers.............Frank
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Larry Jones
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Re: My Experience using Bandlab's Site posting music.....
2018/04/29 16:01:51
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Frank Harvey
I agree but with perhaps an addendum that.... 'Genres' for such a section ( as you put it ) still need to be carefully explained / defined ..............as a pop-up advisory perhaps .... (ie: Defined insofar as the purposes of Bandlab fluidity and in very basic language/ terms ).
cheers.............Frank
Perhaps, but I think I could write a "classified ad" for a musician in such a way as to weed out 90% of the loopers and wannabes on Bandlab. I mean no disrespect, but I would be looking for real players and singers, with skills beyond my meager abilities.
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