Helpful ReplyMy Gr20 died.

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MGMitchell
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2016/01/11 13:49:59 (permalink)

My Gr20 died.

The A string and sometimes the B string don't play but the PU and cord are good
I had it looked at by a wizz tech to no avail.
Instead of buying a replacement of this old hardware technology, should I be looking at some new digital technology?
Basically I used it for sax and brass, keyboards, harmonica, orchestral strings and other "real" instruments.
The advantage was I could play and record real time with the various instruments while overdubbing with almost no delay.
The disadvantage was it was Audio.
It did have Midi in and out but I never figured how to use that in Sonar.
IOW is there now a program where I can play my guitar and get midi in and have it play all these quality instruments back?
I know I can play audio and convert to midi but how does one get to monitor in real time with the various instruments?
 
I do use SI Bass and SI strings and can input with a keyboard and then adjust for my awful keyboard playing, but I'd like horns and the other instruments. The GR20 had so many fine sounds.
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/11 14:02:37

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gswitz
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 14:53:51 (permalink)
My gr20 has midi in and out.

I love mine! Is your prob maybe with the pickup or the cable?

The gk3 pickup is still Roland's pickup for this stuff. There is a gr55, but I haven't tried it.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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Mesh
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 14:55:03 (permalink)
Glenn, you have to check out Midi Guitar: http://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/
 
A lot of us Sonarites have it and it works really well......it's excellent in recording/tracking, no latency, and you can practically play any software synth you have installed in your DAW. The best part is you don't need any additional hardware to use as it's a VST, but you'll have to slightly adjust your playing technique (play more cleanly & precise) in avoiding getting unwanted notes. You can also bend strings (depending on the synth) for added feel.   

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 19:01:52 (permalink)
That sounds familiar. I think I tried that back when I had XP and it didn't play well at the time with that OS
Thanks, I'll give it another try.
Glenn

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mixmkr
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 20:46:46 (permalink)
Boss has a new unit...just plug your gtr cable in.  Not sure of your budget.  I have an old GR33 that I like a lot.  The MIDI into the computer has too much latency, as I might suspect the GR20.  The GR55, some have claimed to be OK for MIDI in.  There's the Fishman Triple Play too.  You can google or YouTube that. 
Maybe another unit off Ebay or the like? 

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#5
MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 21:24:15 (permalink)
Well, tho I tend to look for bargains, cost is not so much an issue.
I would think $1000 is too much (GR55) but a few hundred would definitely be worth it.
I do have the PU and cable.
I wasn't sure about trusting Ebay for used electronic items?
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/11 21:42:23

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SF_Green
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 21:32:31 (permalink)
Thanks for the link Mesh. I need to check that out especially since it's polyphonic.

MGM, I've been using this for a few years now. Nice and cheap, easy, and inexpensive.

http://www.sonuus.com/products_g2m.html

Just like Mesh was saying about the SW, need to adjust playing a bit more to the clean side but works well once you do.

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SF_Green
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 21:34:10 (permalink)
I think I implied this, but I should be clear; the G2M is monophonic. One note at a time.

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 21:37:40 (permalink)
Anyone remember how to setup MIDIGuitar?
I d/l'ed it. Do I put the VST's into my vst folder?
When i ran the MIDIGuitar64 application, a stand alone program UI came up.
What do I do with this?
https://dl.dropboxusercon...om/u/24683934/midi.jpg
 

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Cactus Music
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/11 21:54:29 (permalink)
I thought my GR 50 was a door stop, My Son bought a Godin with the multi pin output, it works 100% better than the old glue on PU system. I used it at a gig withought a hitch. Too bad the old sounds are a bit cheezy. The organ and a poly synth worked best. 

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#10
ston
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 07:00:01 (permalink)
++ for Jam Origin's Midi Guitar.  It's amazing, cheap and you can try a demo too to evaluate it.
 
I have fitted a GK3 to a Les Paul SG.  It works perfectly with the Roland GP10 which the GK3 pickup came with, but I tried a GR55 and it went straight back; not only terrible triggering issues, but I thought the synth sounds in the module were pretty awful.  I have heard that you get better results with the GR55 if you use a guitar that has a built-in divided pickup (such as the GC-1 Fender Strat, or many Godin 'synth ready' guitars) than the DIY GK3.

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gswitz
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 07:11:24 (permalink)
Back when, Noel explained that the gr20 could do a much better sound synthesis job with the native signal from the gk3 pickup. When it converts the data to midi, even when it does a great job of this, a lot of info is lost to the midi synth that is available to the gr20.

When I record and perform with the gr20, I take a number of line outs. Guitar direct not through gr20. Left and right gr20 outs to a stereo track in Sonar. Midi in to at least one synth, often Galbanum piscus for Rapture. Sometimes Z3ta2.

The newer versions of the Roland synths use the same gk3 pickup that came with my gr20. It is possible that they do a better job if the midi conversion than my older model, but I'm guessing they have the same data coming in from the guitar.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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patm300e
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 07:30:48 (permalink)
I have one of these:
http://www.yourockguitar.com/
 
Guitar Center had them on sale for $99.00.  It works has its own MIDI-> USB interface.  Playing feels a little weird, but I am getting used to it.
Yes it IS plastics and kinda cheap feeling, but it does work.

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gswitz
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 08:11:47 (permalink)
A long time ago, Noel explained that the gr20 could do a much better sound synthesis job with the native signal from the gk3 pickup than a Sonar synth could do with the midi output from the gr20. When the gr20 converts the data to midi, even when it does a great job of this, a lot of info is lost to the midi synth that is available to the gr20.

When I record and perform with the gr20, I take a number of line outs. Guitar direct not through gr20. Left and right gr20 outs to a stereo track in Sonar. Midi in to at least one synth, often Galbanum piscus for Rapture. Sometimes Z3ta2.

The newer versions of the Roland synths use the same gk3 pickup that came with my gr20. It is possible that Roland does a better job of the midi conversion in the newer models than my older model, but I'm guessing they have the same data coming in from the guitar.
post edited by gswitz - 2016/01/12 08:24:45

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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BobF
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 09:58:59 (permalink)
If you end up replacing completely, the Fishman TriplePlay might work for you.  I have one that I like a lot, but I don't push it very hard

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Mesh
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 10:02:17 (permalink)
MGMitchell
Anyone remember how to setup MIDIGuitar?
I d/l'ed it. Do I put the VST's into my vst folder?
When i ran the MIDIGuitar64 application, a stand alone program UI came up.
What do I do with this?
https://dl.dropboxusercon...om/u/24683934/midi.jpg
 


I can't see that jpg file (blocked at my workplace), but in standalone, you have to point Midi guitar's scanner to the folder(s) where you keep your VST's and let it scan. After it's done the scanning, you can choose which synth you want (instead of the piano that's included in MG) and.......have fun!! 
 
You'll have to do some initial configurations to suit your playing style and also setting MG to use your audio interface (I use ASIO with my Focusrite at 48k, with the lowest buffer MG allows.....and it works very well). BTW, I'm going from short term memory here and I'm not at my DAW.       
 
Oh, yeah you can put MG's VST file (.dll) within the Cakewalk VST folder (I have a folder beneath that for all 3rd party VST's).....
 
Here's a link to set it up in Sonar: http://www.jamorigin.com/docs/daw/#toggle-id-5
post edited by Mesh - 2016/01/12 10:24:31

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Cactus Music
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 10:35:55 (permalink)
Glenn, Have you tried the MIDI output yet? 
 
The only differance is it introduces latency.
The main reason for Roland including a sound module with there systems is they found that driving a synth directly without midi reduced latency and the results are why their system was the most exceptable of all. 
NNow the issue is those sound modules are very outdated and to most the sounds are not anywhere near as good as what we are used to. But then again a lot of people have no problem with "Vintage" synth sounds. I take mine for what they are and have a dozen or so that I still use, like the organs, Poly Synth and flute. 
 
If it's only the sound module that is hooped but the midi output is still sending, then there's no reason you can't record midi into Sonar. 
 
Just hook the cables up , insert something like TTS-1 and set the input to the midi input of your interface. 
There will be some latency but the higher you play the less a of a lag. PLay the parts and then just quantize and transpose etc. 
I tried that MIDI Guitar by Jam and it's not even close compared to my GR 50 with the Godin. 
The Godin seems to track perfectly, no latency using the module and very few false triggers if I play it right. I'm using it in my band again after 20 years of gathering dust. All along the issue was the GK2 PU.  

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#17
ston
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 11:08:50 (permalink)
IIRC you need to run the stand-alone version of MIDI Guitar for it to a) 'see' the licence file so it knows that it's a registered version and b) check for any available updates (the application will inform you).
 
Those are the only reasons I use the stand-alone version.  Beyond that, pop the .dll into your vst folder, then load the vst into an audio track.  I kill the fader for that track so as not to output the guitar signal (or the synth sound from MIDI Guitar) and then route the MIDI from MIDI Guitar into the input of an instrument/MIDI track for triggering synths.
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rsinger
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 13:44:32 (permalink)
The GR-55 would be the current replacement for the GR-20. I think it's pretty good. It has a COSM channel that does guitar/amp/synth modelling. If you do synth modelling in COSM there is virtually no latency. It also has 2 PCM channels that play with some latency. It does GTR-To-MIDI as well. It does have a known problem - the guitar out is noisy. The main outs are fine. Street price in the states is around $700 without a pu. If you have any interest in it check out the vguitarforums web site.
 
I like the SY-300, you don't need a hex pickup and there is no noticeable latency, but it is like an old analog synth and is probably not what you want. It does do some nice string and brass pads, ambient pads, good brass leads, etc, but you'll have to program them yourself.. There is no latency or glitchiness and is very expressive.
 
The following song was done with a GR-55 using GTR-To-MIDI for the background and SY-300 for the lead
https://sites.google.com/site/phoenixtaiji/music/content/cantShakeThisFeeling.mp3
 
This song has SY-300 for the leads. The bass is VG-99, but GR-55 can do the same.
https://sites.google.com/site/phoenixtaiji/music/content/strangeEvents.mp3
 
The electro-harmonix key9 pedal is pretty nice if you like Rhodes/Wurly keys, but that is all it does.
 
+1 for the yourock. I use it for pads or rhythmic patches that last more than a couple bars.

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 17:13:23 (permalink)
Great feedback guys. Thanks so much.
I'll be hacking away at these suggestions for a bit but will definitely let you know how it goes.

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 18:51:01 (permalink)
On the Jamorigins instructions for Sonar, I got to here and bogged down.
5.Launch Sonar. Add new audio track. Insert MIDI Guitar (now found in Soft Synths menu) to FX bin.(no problem, I called it "midi guitar" . I found the Midi FX and a midi guitar window pops up)
6.Go to Synth rack view. Right click grey area of the MIDI Guitar synth block and click “Enable MIDI Output”. ok done
That’s it. Add your favourite synth to a new track and route MIDI input from MIDI Guitar, (done) which should be visible in MIDI input menu
When i play, the meters in the "midi guitar" track respond but no sounds from the SI Strings instrument synth
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/12 19:30:00

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Mesh
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 19:42:35 (permalink)
Since we both have Sonar Plat......here's a very simple way to do it:
 
On an Audio track in the Fx bin, click the + sign and Insert Audio Fx > VST2 > Midi Guitar
then, open the Midi Guitar interface and click on Instrument (top right corner)......choose which synth you want to play and click on Edit (which opens up the Synth.....i.e. SI Strings and play your guitar)......simple :)) 

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 21:08:23 (permalink)
Hm, attached are the two interfaces of the midi guitar window. I don't see the word Instrument on the top corner.
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/12 21:29:07

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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 21:15:44 (permalink)
I did see the instrument output on the first one.
Hitting manage instruments there, opens a blank window looking for instruments and vst's, but hitting scan tells me to do it as a stand alone. I couldn't seem to open a stand alone one.
 
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/12 21:28:27

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scook
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/12 22:27:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/01/13 20:30:58
I do not configure the MIDI Guitar plug-in as a synth. That was necessary prior to X3 but no longer. Also, I use a separate track for the synth. The setup goes like this:
  • Add a mono audio track for guitar input
  • Add the MIDI Guitar Plug-in to the FX rack
  • Set "Enable MIDI Output" in the VST2 dropdown in the MIDI Guitar VST header
  • Enable "Input Echo" on the audio track
  • Add a synth either using a MIDI+Audio tracks or instrument track and load a program
  • Set the MIDI or instrument track input to MIDI Guitar
  • Enable "Input Echo" on the MIDI or instrument track
 
The pictures are a fairly old version of the MIDI Guitar and the ASIO buffer is a little high for good results.
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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/13 01:46:31 (permalink)
Thanks Scook, I'll try this tomorrow.
Don't know why the pix would be old, I just downloaded it.
It is the free version however. Perhaps the paid one is different?

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scook
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/13 01:56:47 (permalink)
The paid version is not a beta although there is a v2 beta available. The first image is an old beta. The second image is the regular 1.0 release version. I purchased when the product was still in beta for v1 and have no experience with the trial package.
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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/13 13:36:01 (permalink)
Thanks Scook it's working now.
Excellent instructions.
A bit of delay at this point, but maybe fixable with settings.
I had an old version as well as the new in the VST list, so I wiped them all clean and started over.
I'm excited.

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scook
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/13 13:45:49 (permalink)
The delay is the result of your audio buffer settings. The best results are had using an ASIO buffer setting of 128 samples or smaller.
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MGMitchell
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Re: My Gr20 died. 2016/01/13 13:50:54 (permalink)
experimenting
 
 
post edited by MGMitchell - 2016/01/13 14:21:54

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