The problem with Dell (and other similar brands), is that they typically use consumer grade parts not intended for DAW's. This includes the power supply, which is usually a piece or garbage and rated 300W or less. You can get into their higher end business computers (HP Z series, etc), but at that price point you may as well go to a custom builder such as those already mentioned.

> The problem with Dell (and other similar brands), is that they typically use consumer grade parts not intended for DAW's.

Sorry utter baloney! :) Everybody is a consumer, the only parts made especially for DAWs are the interface/soundcard.

Let's remove this current myth which may have been true at the beginning of the century.

10 years ago you would buy a workstation off a production line targeted towards games, add your interface/soundcard and that would give you enough horsepower.

Nowadays even medium budget machines from a production far outweigh the power of the best machines 3 years ago (or even the year before). You just need to add your interface/soundcard and perhaps add a USB or firewire card (assuming the machine is lacking).

The idea that reliability is better in custom workstations does not hold true esp if the sole idea is to use the latest and fastest technology, because even after a burn in test you are still the beta tester.... although nowadays the chances of a system being totally stable are 99% (unless you want to go into overclocking).

The same rings true of production line PC's. Every now and again you get a faulty batch (and this is rare nowadays), however it is not in the manufacturers interests to produce PC's with faulty parts, that would be an extremely expensive mistake especially when their profit margins may be as low as 5% (stack 'em high sell them low).

So really the only reason to get a custom PC is knowing you have absolutely the latest gear and the fastest possible configuration, and you feel warm and fuzzy that a person you know has tested it. No different to how games players feel, if they want the fastest machine  Now that may give you a 10% advantage.
 
Now considering my Dell XPS 8100 has rarely been pushed above 60% of its total resources I would question if such as system is really necessary unless you 200 plugins and 128 tracks on the go (just a wild figure I poked out of the sky). i.e. this DAW is intended for Abbey Road studios (and even then I would question that). I think really it's more like... hey look at my cool customer car rather than serving any functional purpose. It makes you feel good to have a machine that is 10% more powerful than your neighbor. There is another reason, large manufacturers are generally a lot better at dealing with things when hardware breaks down proving you have a long warranty. They always have enough parts.
 
A final note, processing/memory usage of DAW software hasn't really gone up that much over the last 3 years, things may be about to change though (i.e. large realtime usage of plugins like melodyne etc).
 
That's my take anyway.

> With a custom DAW machine from a specialized builder, you get the PROPER parts.
 
The same rings true of production line PC's. Every now and again you get a faulty batch (and this is rare nowadays), however it is not in the manufacturers interests to produce PC's with faulty parts, that would be an extremely expensive mistake especially when their profit margins may be as low as 5% (stack 'em high sell them low).
 
Consider...  these guys do 5 year warranties. Everything from any PC is made from the same factories etc. And it's no different, if you want the best parts go buy the highest quality system from either you custom builder or production line supplier (i.e. Dell). What do you mean by a "proper part" anyway? Gold plated sockets? Water cooling systems supplied with distilled water supplied from the lakes surrounding the volcanoes of Indonesia?

> With a custom DAW machine from a specialized builder, you get the PROPER parts.
 
Nope what you often get is parts that are put in production line PC's six months later. You get the latest and greatest before the big boys supply the latest and greatest.



There are PC's and there are what audiophiles think what a PC should be.... it's always nice to try and live up to the myth. Occasionally it happens (not saying it doesn't).

> When you build your own machine at least you know what is in it.
 
Yup and then you may become pig in the middle if something goes wrong.
I've had it before when I've built my own system (I've done that two or three times, and I've built hundreds for others) whereby there would be an incompatibility issue with the motherboard and graphics card. Even after firmware updates etc the motherboard manufacturer would blame the graphics card manufacturer, and vice versa... Effectively I am pig in the middle.
 
Situation... deadlock. Solution, buy more hardware and hope it will work.
Better solution, make somebody else pig in the middle who doesn't have low overheads, buy a maintenance contract with them. If my Dell breaks down Mr Engineer comes round the next day with my needed part...
 
Ta
 
Alex

I'm beginning to think there is a lot of difference between Dell UK and Dell US.

Apple use quality parts?.. LOL....What I believe, is Apple use parts that are Snuck in without the customers mindful knowledge at double the price.
Intel CPU chips made in different parts of the world, are Not COMPLETELY the same !!!, And DDR2 is not as fast as DDR3, yet they have not made the transition..but charge a fortune for memory.
 
Sata 2 5400rpm Deskjet Hard drives in their laptops anyone?..or cheap memory perhaps ddr2..wink...and when it bogs down, or the drives go belly up early in their life time...they want to charge for the fix...
Yep support that is where they make their final cash grab...."don't void the warranty by putting in your own higher grade parts"....for god sake!!!
 
So Apples should be eaten with care...not flare!
Although the new unreleased yet workstation has spun the word of...2x intel cpu,  sata 3 , DDR3,USB3, and sports thunderbolt 2 or 3?, and double ATI Fire Pro graphic cards...all cooled with one fan...SO less air flow is more cooling off time for the dosh spent??..LOL..it is moving a little late in the game, to where PCs have been the forerunners of those new technologies MACs seem to lack in, for a few years now....surely, a $5,000.00 over priced thought coming soon should turn the tide towards Mac Computing ?....But if buying in when released, make sure the hard drives/SSD or Hybrid drives, and memory, are of the highest quality!...and I would wait for the reviews before laying down the dosh..
 
Sorry I had to chime in on that Mac comment...about quality parts.

I agree about the parts being made cheap, everything is made in Asia. But I still ask the question....would a pro choose a mass produced, consumer grade PC, or go for a top of the line custom build?? The answer is obvious, and its because pro work requires certain specs and quality components. Hans Zimmer (who switched to PC exclusively) is a perfect example. There's no way he or his crew are going to rely on a bunch of Dell Pc's from the Shopping Channel. The average music enthusiast would do fine, but not for pro level work.

PS- Nigel Tufnel rocks!!!!

> There's no way he or his crew are going to rely on a bunch of Dell Pc's from the Shopping Channel. 
 
I know one who has worked on at least 10 major albums, some of which you may have heard of. Just one Dell though.

CakeAlexS
I'm beginning to think there is a lot of difference between Dell UK and Dell US.

There just might be. I am beginning to think the same thing

You still seem to have an ASUS machine driving all this....

So in the unlikely event your machine does not have the horse power, and that a custom build manufacturer supplies faster CPU configurations than and "off the shelf" sure go with him in these rare scenarios... :) I'm sure a 5% improvement in CPU may make all the difference... and so will your wallet! Or (as is my point) wait another year and get the same thing as it will be a lot cheaper.
 
Admit it, people buy custom PC's because they think it's cool not because they have a real need.... The fact some of these PC's look like a work of art pretty much subscribes to the point of view that some people like the idea of driving a Ferrari even though there is a speed limit on their highway.
 

I can't resist this. We used to have to build our own gear. Who could afford to buy a Moog or Buchla? So in 1979 I started building a PAIA 8700c computer-controlled, 3-voice analog synth. It had a 6502-style microprocessor, touch pad hex programming, programmable drum kit, Pink Tunes fractal music generator. A wonderful piece of gear.
 
It took about a year to build. Prior to that I built lots of Heathkit gear that you can see in the background. Obscured by the lamp is a Heathkit dual-trace oscilloscope.
 
This was before MIDI, before Apple, before CDs, before the dawn of modern civilization.
 
If anyone want to hear some of my music made on that, here is one I made in 1982, called "Meteor":
 
http://www.arachnaut.net/audio/Meteor.mp3
 

 
 

Yeah I used to build my own PC's for DAWs as well. Thought it might be cheaper and better (it wasn't). I realised they're all the same you just gotta look carefully for what you want....

arachnaut
 
If anyone want to hear some of my music made on that, here is one I made in 1982, called "Meteor":
  

They could have used that on the film "Forbidden Planet"!
 
I also built many Heathkits, including the scope you have. My first was a Power Amp using real fire bottles! (Vacuum tubes).
 
Walt
 


 

CakeAlexS
> I have had three dells and they have been nothing but trouble for me.
 
I've bought three Dells myself. Also as an IT manager in the past I've also managed about 300 workstations.
They were pretty darn reliable, I think we may have had 3 hard drive failures (all within a few weeks of buying, clearly a batch issue) over two years and a couple of monitor issues.
 
Just my angle, and if you have a warranty (my machine is on 4 years I think) they just swap out the hardware for you (saves you searching around for parts).

I have had DELLs that were great, My wife has three at her office and we have a Demension 8300 with XP that just keeps on running. That line of laptops from a few years ago, with the integrated motherboards were real crap. I still have an old laptop from before those POS lappys that runs XP. It fires up whenever I want to use it but it maxed out at 2G of RAM... but it always works. It has a slot in the side some card that I used to connect to the net,can't remember the name of the slot or the card but they have made some good machines. I will NEVER EVER buy another computer with an integrated motherboard/video card or any other component than may need replacing integrated into the motherboard, what a bad idea. I think the ones that were a problem were XPS M something or another. The one that just keeps going (I did replace the lid and screen because a hinge broke) is a Inspiron 5100. Solid computer just not enough computer for today, but for surfing or simple games it works.
Actually I have been very happy with this HP Pavilion dm4 I am typing this on. I have to be careful about the letter "o" but other than that, it gives me no trouble and runs Sonar X between 90 and 100ms latency with the right configuration. Turn off WIFI and I get no spikes... no it isn't going to replace a desktop DAW but for hat it is... I like it. I just ned to learn to make an image of my drives... I woud feel SO much better then.
 
J