Helpful ReplyMy RAM upgrade (mistake?)

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keneds
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2013/10/16 23:22:40 (permalink)

My RAM upgrade (mistake?)

Using a Dell XPS17 laptop for the last 3 years. It's been running pretty stable through all the versions of Cakewalk starting with Home studio xl and then though the X1a,b,c,d X2 version who knows at this point. Anyway, I thought that maybe if I bumped up my ram from 4Gb to the maximum of 16Gb some of my quirky issues might get resolved. I chatted with a Dell rep on their web site and the guy told me that my computer is capable of using 8Gb max. Ok, that's fine.

The next night I decided to call and purchase some ram from Dell. The lady says that my computer is capable of having 16 Gb installed. I thought wow, the guy last night told me 8 Gb was the max. She rechecked my computer specs and assured me that 16 will work fine. So I purchased two 8 Gb ram cards from them about $80 a piece. I finally got them and ran downstairs to get them babies in. Easy.....pop em in, rehook everything back up and turn it on. Black screen white letters saying blah blah Error and my computer is barking out a series of 5 beeps over and over...... ****, what's wrong? Did I not plug them in right? Disconnect everything and retrace my steps. Everything looks good, close it back up, rehook everything up, turn it on...... ****, same thing.

My thoughts went back to the lady was wrong, my computer will only take the 8 Gb of ram. So I call Dell, patiently on hold for 15 minutes I make my way through the channels and finally get a tech, we start the troubleshooting process of reinserting the chips, swapping them back and forth, only inserting one at a time to finally be told that my bios has been corrupted and I need to reinstall my operating system. He tells me to get my operating system disk out and let's reinstall windows. I said to the man.....they never gave me a windows disk with my computer, it came pre-installed. He told me he can send me the necessary disk for a mere $129. WTF!!!!!! I said, knowing I'm being bilked for more cash. This is getting expensive, why did I do this? I should of just let it be.

Now the kicker, I will lose all my programs, plug ins, drivers and need to start from scratch and rebuild my arsenal of goodies from the various web sites. Fortunately, I did a backup to an external drive on my cakewalk projects file before I did any of this. Norton also recently backed up but I'm not sure what that backup will contain.

So, I will wait for Fedex to deliver my disk so I can begin my rebuilding/recuperation process. This should be fun.

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#1
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/18 05:19:40 (permalink)
I feel for you.
 
Can you not reset the BIOS by taking out the battery on the MOBO for a couple of minutes.
 
I assume laptops have one of these, I don't know as I've never taken one apart.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/18 07:09:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jps 2013/10/18 11:19:10
I used to do a lot of support on the Dell forums.  16GB is the correct amount according to both Crucial Memory and the spec's in the Dell manual.
 
Resetting the BIOS does not mean you have to do a complete reinstall.  The beeps at the startup is the Power On Self Test and it has never gotten to the BIOS or to booting up the Operating System.
 
5 beeps, according to the Dell beep code chart I have is "RTC clock failure" and a possible cause is CMOS (BIOS) Battery failure.  There is a CR2032 coin cell CMOS battery on the motherboard.  With the unit powered off, remove the CR2032 battery (observe polarity so you can reinstall it correctly) for AT LEAST 10 minutes (Intel says 15 minutes).  If you have a volt meter measure the battery voltage (it should be at least 3VDC).  If the battery measures good, replace it and see what happens.   I would also reinstall the original memory, to start with.  Otherwise I would suspect something may have got "zapped" when you were into it to change/add memory and if that is the case the motherboard will have to be replaced.  Static Electricity is one culprit (I use a "grounding wrist strap" when I work on PC's), improper parts handling is another - only handle memory modules by their edges. 

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/18 19:15:19 (permalink)
  Still waiting for the "disk" from Dell...They called last night to check my status an i explained to this guy (who knew no details of my issue untill i gave him the incident #)what the problem is, He told me that I actually did not pay for a disk.... but I paid $129 for that technial support to get me through this issue I'm having. The original tech i was working with did mention an internal battery and through a series of swapping the memory chips to test the chips themselves for proper function determined that my operating system has been corrupted and needed to be reinstalled and it was not the internal battery.
  I made a point to ground myself out (by touching it) to my power conditioner before handeling the insides of my computer. I'm still awaiting the Fedex girl to deliver the package so i look at my laptop sitting upside down on my desk waiting to be tampered with some more. i'm depressed and worried that it can only get worse with the help of Dell.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 07:46:20 (permalink)
I seriously doubt that the OS is corrupted.  A corrupted OS will not cause any diagnostic beeps when you first power on.  When you first power on it is only checking hardware for errors, it hasn't even got to the point of trying to load the OS.  It hasn't even got to the point of loading the BIOS, which it has to do first before accessing the hard drive to load Windows.
 
The reload the OS is standard with many tech supports.  Whether its needed or not they do that first and then mumble and stumble around after it doesn't help.  I've been in computer hardware and support since before PC's and managed a Network and hardware help desk for 23 years (until I retired).  I worked (users helping users) on the Dell forums for 10 years.     
 
 

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 09:00:21 (permalink)
Thanks Fireberd, would pulling out ram cards kill the internal battery?

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 09:19:14 (permalink)
It shouldn't, but anything is possible.  Did you check the battery as I suggested (assuming you have a voltmeter)?  If not, just get a new CR2032 battery (you can get them almost everywhere) and replace the existing battery and see what happens. 
 
As you were inside the PC, even just to swap memory, something else could have been inadvertently bumped touched or whatever that is causing the problem.  Sadly, if its something other than the CMOS battery I would suspect its going to take a motherboard replacement. 
 
Although you got the new memory from Dell, I've seen cases of them selling or sending incorrect memory.  Don't know if that is the case with yours.  On the Dell forums, all the techies on there recommend Crucial Memory, for non-Dell branded memory as Crucial guarantees their memory to work in Dell's. 

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 09:41:05 (permalink)
The new ram cards have identical numbers on them but the two 8Gb cards differ from each other in appearance, each card has 8 small black chips attached to them but they are noticeably different in size ( the black chips that is) I questioned that with them as we'll but he said that does not matter. The numbers do match. That's why he had me insert each chip one at a time and try to boot with only one chip at a time. Windows would not start in safe mode by pressing F2 upon start up.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 09:56:41 (permalink)
FYI.... The ram is made by Corsair. That's what Dell sent.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 11:17:25 (permalink)
Back to the original problem.  Are you still getting the 5 beeps when you power on the PC?

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 11:41:35 (permalink)
Are you using a 64-bit version of Windows?  I don't recall all of the details, but the 32-bit version will probably use only 3 or 4 gig of memory no matter how much you have in the laptop.  Since you're reloading anyway, it might be a good time to upgrade the OS to 64-bit. 
 
Good luck.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 12:23:21 (permalink)
Old55, his sig says Win 7 64 bit.  But, the original problem, after inserting the memory was the 5 beeps at PC power on, which is an error report from the Power On Self Test (POST), which is an "RTC Clock Failure".  At that point it will not boot up or even load the BIOS.  Its not an OS problem at that point as its not even getting to the point to access the hard drive and load (or try to load) the OS.  If this is still the problem, reloading the OS, which is not needed, is impossible.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 12:31:42 (permalink)
Sorry, I overlooked that that part.  Thanks for pointing it out. 
 
Then I'd go back to the original config and see if the beeps continue.  If they don't, I'd swap in the new DIMMs in a minimal config to see if one of them is bad.  Thirdly, I'd make sure that, you're not mixing the DIMMs within each bank--especially since they're different in style and appearance. 
 
Good luck. 
post edited by Old55 - 2013/10/19 12:33:06

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 12:54:53 (permalink)
Got the battery......gonna give it a try.

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 13:27:23 (permalink)
Status update: changed the internal battery and restarted the computer with the new 16 Gb of ram installed......5 beeps with an error code that read, ERROR 210. CPU variable MTRR configure failed.

Removed my new 16Gb memory cards (2x8Gb) and reinstalled the original set of memory chips (2x2Gb) the computer and windows rebooted like nothing ever happened. So what is the problem with my new 16Gb's of memory?

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scook
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 13:50:34 (permalink)
If the beeps are timed 1 then 3 then 1 according to this site, that is an indication of the "Memory modules not being properly identified or used" or is that code not used in this PC.
post edited by scook - 2013/10/19 13:53:00
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 13:52:03 (permalink)
Maybe one of the new DIMMs is bad.  Try putting both of the new DIMMs in the system and see if they work by themselves.  If they do, leave them in and add the original DIMMs to the second bank and see if that works.  If the two new DIMMs fail by themselves, one or both may be bad.  Try putting one of the old(known good DIMMs) in the first bank with a new one.  If it passes, try the second one.  If one them fails, it's bad--send it back to Dell.  If they both fail, it may be a compatibility problem between new and old DIMMs.  Send them both back to Dell. 

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 14:17:45 (permalink)
Ok....I just tried what old55 suggested and got the error codes and beeps for each swap. Went back to the original DIMMs both 2x2Gb's and it's all good. I'm done with this and now going to call Dell and send them back for a refund along with a refund on the tech support that never was. This should be interesting.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 14:23:16 (permalink)
The new memory may not be bad and larger chips may be an older model that works the same with/as the newer model that uses smaller chips on the memory board.
 
Perhaps it is just - the wrong memory they sent you and it will not work in your computer and different type memory is needed. I do not know for sure just a thought.
 

 
 
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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 14:30:54 (permalink)
Possible, I think I'm just going to go to best buy and hand pick them myself once I straighten out Dell. I'm just happy my computer is alive again.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 15:53:14 (permalink)
It turns out that the Dell XPS17 3D version can take 16Gb.....The non 3D version maxs out @ 8Gb..............Stupid Dell, is'nt that why they put a service tag number on the back?

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 18:30:13 (permalink)
Be careful with buying non-Dell branded memory.  Dell's have a history of compatibility with some brands of memory.  No particular memory, one brand may work on one PC and same brand not on another exact same model.  For that reason we always recommended the Crucial memory as it is guaranteed to work in Dell's.  Avoid the Kingston Value RAM (KVR) as it is a known issue with many PC brands.  If you buy locally, buy somewhere that has a liberal return policy in case it doesn't work. 
 
There are two XPS 17 models, L701X and L702X.  The max memory, according to what I see in the Dell manual depends on whether you have two or four memory module connectors (slots).  4GB is Maximum for each slot, thus if you have two memory slots then 8GB (two 4GB memory modules) would be maximum.  If you have four memory slots then 16GB (four 4GB memory modules).  
 
You need to get the compatible memory.  Specs (from Crucial): DDR3 PC3-10600 • CL=9 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR3-1333 • 1.35V
 
 
 

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/19 20:39:34 (permalink)
Wow just read this thread and cringed at the part when they (Dell) wanted you to reinstall your OS, but I kept reading and you could not since you did not have the disk.  And without the correct Ram you would have not been able to anyway. Very irresponsible on Dells part on two counts wrong Ram, worse advice: paid advice no less.
 
Good lesson though come up with a back up-plan!
 
Glad it worked out!! The most important part
John
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fireberd
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 06:52:44 (permalink)
The "reinstall the OS" is typical for many vendor's support.  They are mostly reading from a script on a screen, especially the "level 1" support.  Higher level 2 and level 3 support won't usually use the "reinstall" as the first thing, or almost first thing, they will have the customer do.
 
I had all 3 support level techs working for me, Level 1 - basically the person that answers the phone and gets the users name, phone number and what the problem is and does some rudimentary troubleshooting.  Level 2 is the meat of the support staff, is a higher level tech and can diagnose and fix (or send a tech to fix) most problems.  Level 3 support is the engineer/system analysts types and get involved with system and/or software issues - they normally do not work directly with a users, but interface with the Level 2 techs that do. 
 
 

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keneds
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 08:55:42 (permalink)
The original ram cards were manufactured by "Hynix" I just ordered two 4 Gb cards manufactured by Hynix. This time it should go smooth. Dells not involved.

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 10:36:10 (permalink)
Fireberd is giving you the best advice for free. Why are you not listening to his advise?

Everything he has said was correct, and by your status updates proven correct.

Why didn't you get Crucial ram?

Grem

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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 10:37:37 (permalink)
And while you PC is working, make a recovery disk before you do anything else!!

Grem

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AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 
Surface Pro 3
Win 10  i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
#27
keneds
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
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  • Location: West Grove PA.
  • Status: offline
Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 11:52:13 (permalink)
I purchased the same make of ram that is currently installed in my computer. Relax. I recognize everything fireberd has helped me with......Grem

SONAR Platinum  
Dell XPS17 /  External 23" touch screen & 22" HP displays/Windows 10 64bit i5 processor/  
8Gb ram/500GB (7200rpm SATA HD)/Roland VS-700 set/KRK rockit 6/KRK 10" sub and a bunch of cables
EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

#28
Grem
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  • Location: Baton Rouge Area
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Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 11:57:44 (permalink)
keneds
I recognize everything fireberd has helped me with......Grem


Has he helped you? I don't see where you did anything he suggested! LoL ; )

Grem

Michael
 
Music PC
i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, 
Home PC
AMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 
Surface Pro 3
Win 10  i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
#29
keneds
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 725
  • Joined: 2008/10/16 22:49:51
  • Location: West Grove PA.
  • Status: offline
Re: My RAM upgrade (mistake?) 2013/10/20 18:38:53 (permalink)
What's your point? Grem....
post edited by keneds - 2013/10/20 19:39:57

SONAR Platinum  
Dell XPS17 /  External 23" touch screen & 22" HP displays/Windows 10 64bit i5 processor/  
8Gb ram/500GB (7200rpm SATA HD)/Roland VS-700 set/KRK rockit 6/KRK 10" sub and a bunch of cables
EZdrummer2 / EZmix2

#30
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