Helpful ReplyMy Sonar is breaking down.....

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JonBoh
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2012/07/25 16:29:32 (permalink)

My Sonar is breaking down.....

So yesterday I was finishing my song up and added a last vocal track. I then listened to the whole track and realized there were some strange crackling sounds in some parts where there weren't before. I figured that it must be coming from the new track I added so I solo'd it, but it was fine on its own. I checked every other track and they were also fine. I decided to ignore this for the time being, so I began to tweak a few things and add a few more effects to finish the song, but gradually the crackling became more frequent and stronger to the point where it occurred throughout the entire project. A day later, I can no longer play the project back because it is almost constantly dropping out and I can barely make out the song. 
I assume it must be a processing problem as the more I add to the project, the worse it gets.  
My specs are:
Windows 7 64 Bit
Pentium Dual-Core Processor 3.20GHz
3GB RAM 

Any help will be appreciated.


- Jon

#1
Stone House Studios
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 16:32:04 (permalink)
JonBoh


So yesterday I was finishing my song up and added a last vocal track. I then listened to the whole track and realized there were some strange crackling sounds in some parts where there weren't before. I figured that it must be coming from the new track I added so I solo'd it, but it was fine on its own. I checked every other track and they were also fine. I decided to ignore this for the time being, so I began to tweak a few things and add a few more effects to finish the song, but gradually the crackling became more frequent and stronger to the point where it occurred throughout the entire project. A day later, I can no longer play the project back because it is almost constantly dropping out and I can barely make out the song. 
I assume it must be a processing problem as the more I add to the project, the worse it gets.  
My specs are:
Windows 7 64 Bit
Pentium Dual-Core Processor 3.20GHz
3GB RAM 

Any help will be appreciated.


- Jon

You failed to list your audio interface.

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#2
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 16:34:43 (permalink)
Oh sorry, it is an E-MU 0204 USB
#3
Jimbo 88
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 16:42:47 (permalink)
Sounds like your audio buffer needs to be raised.  Try freezing any soft synths.  Try exporting an audio mix.  It should be fine.  
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Stone House Studios
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 16:44:03 (permalink)
The usual suspects are audio latency, buffers, and drivers. So if you are listening to playback with a lot of effects, you could be hearing drop outs because your PC can't keep up.  You could try increasing buffer size, freezing tracks or increasing latency during playback.
 
Brian
 
 

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#5
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 16:57:39 (permalink)
Also, 3Gb of RAM isn't huge by today's standards, I'd upgrade to 8 - maybe higher if your Motherboard can cope.

Is this a laptop or a desktop?

Also, how many hard drives? What capacity? 

What synths are you using?

All of the above can and will have a bearing on audio performance

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#6
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 17:02:12 (permalink)
When I increase the buffer size, it makes the project unresponsive and I sometimes I have to close and re-open sonar to fix the problem. Freezing tracks doesn't seem to be making a difference either....


post edited by JonBoh - 2012/07/25 17:10:13
#7
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 17:10:23 (permalink)
It is a desktop and it has 2 hard drives, capacity of both being 222GB. I am using Session Drummer 3 and z3ta+ 1. 

EDIT: My computer just blue screened after trying to close Sonar, this isn't looking good...
post edited by JonBoh - 2012/07/25 17:34:45
#8
brundlefly
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/25 17:45:52 (permalink)
You haven't by any chance set Processor Scheduling to give priority to "Background Services" have you? That's a debunked tweak that made my DAW run as you describe when I tried it once many moons ago. My machine could barely boot and launch SONAR, much less play a project.
What are your ASIO and Disk I/O buffers set to now?


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#9
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 06:55:57 (permalink)
Ok I checked the processor scheduling and it is set to programs, not background services. At the moment my ASIO buffer size is 80 I believe, but how do I check the disk buffer?
#10
massimo_max
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 07:38:06 (permalink)
A friend of mine had a similar issue some time ago and it was all related to some programs he installed on the machine.

Have you done anthing to your PC that would have affected the registies?

Z3ta+ is hardly a CPU intensive plug in so I doubt it's anthig to do with buffer size.   Especially if you already had a blue screen.

One thing you may want to try is to uninstall your audio drivers, reboot, install them again and the let Sonar run its performance test.   See what happens after that.
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synkrotron
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 07:52:16 (permalink)
and a daft question regarding your interface driver... I assume it is the latest one downloaded from the manufacturers website, and not a third party ASIO driver?

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#12
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 08:16:56 (permalink)
It must have the latest drivers because there are no new drivers on the website.
I also tried uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers, still no luck.
Sorry for not knowing this, but what changes would affect the registries?
#13
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 08:54:04 (permalink)
Which version of Sonar are you running?

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JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 09:55:48 (permalink)
It is X1 Producer Expanded
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Brando
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 10:36:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
1) ASIO or WDM? Edit - Sorry you answered this - it is ASIO - have you tried WDM?
2) USB 2.0 or 1.1 (the port on your PC you are plugged in to) (or 3)? Also are you plugged directly in or into a hub (if Hub, is it powered or unpowered)?
3) What bit rate and frequency of your recorded tracks?
4) Other USB devices - 

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Brando
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 10:38:39 (permalink)
oh and
5) What is your DPC Latency?
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml


Brando
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#17
massimo_max
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 10:46:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Windows does all sorts of things even when you think you're not using it that much.
Registries get affected for the most when you:

- install/uninstall programs
- install/uninstall hardware
- run updates
- move folders locations (especially important for VST libraris)
- run supposed "pc tune up" applications
- setup windows to self optimise (or destroy )
 
If you say that you didn't used to have this problem but now you do, maybe something happened there.  The reason why I go down this route is because of your mentioned blue screen.   If it was a Sonar/Audio/Latency issue, at worst Sonar would have crashed.  But a blue screen???  That screams drivers/registry to me.
 
Do you get the crackling sounds now on other projects too or only the song you did the other night?
#18
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 11:26:04 (permalink)
@Brando
WDM won't work with the E-MU as its drivers don't support it
It is USB 2.0 and it is plugged directly in
I don't have other USB devices as far as I know..
Latencies are:  
Current Latency around 120
Absolute Maximum is 448
And sorry I don't know how to check frequency or bit rate..


@massimo_max
I haven't done any of those things lately 
Well at the moment I only get the crackling on my first project, but if I were to keep on adding more tracks to my other project, it would eventually get crackly (I tried this.)

#19
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 11:31:17 (permalink)
....

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#20
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 12:05:15 (permalink)

Bristol_Jonesey


.... 
........

If these settings are all normal, then is it down to the RAM?
#21
Jim Roseberry
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 12:11:36 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Hi Jon,

Due to the BSOD, I'd test your system's RAM and stress-test the system as a whole.
If you've got a bad stick of RAM... or a hardware issue, Sonar X1 (or any other DAW app) is going to have problems.

As was suggested, check your DPC latency.  If there are large spikes, that's guaranteed to cause glitches/dropouts.
If your idle DPC latency isn't low/consistent, you'll have to run the Emu at larger ASIO buffer sizes.
If there are spikes well into the yellow/red, those will need to be addressed before you can effectively work.

Also, check to make sure all HDs are running in DMA mode.  If one slipped into PIO mode, that'll absolutely kill performance.

Another thing to check:  Make sure the Emu is connected to a USB 2.0 controller (not a 3.0 controller).
Most USB 3.0 controllers are provided via 3rd-party add-on controllers (not integrated into the motherboard's chipset).  Using these controllers can result in poor performance... (similar to using a "rogue" chipset Firewire controller with a Firewire audio interface)

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#22
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 12:59:27 (permalink)
Thanks for the tips. The latency seems to be fine and the IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers running in DMA mode, so it's not that. The E-MU is connected to the computer directly which is 2.0 so that is fine. I will check my systems RAM now and see if that is the problem
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konradh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 13:09:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
You might open Task Manager in Windows, go to Performance Tab, start the project, and watch your CPU and memory usuage.

I had this problem on a project that was using Hollywood Strings.  CPU usuage would go up to 100% and the noise began.  Solo isn't a true test because it turns off a lot of processing demand.

I had to solve this by (1) making a copy of the project under a different name, (2) deleting everything but Hollywood, (3) bouncing to audio, and (4) pasting the audio back into the original project.  I saved the original project with the audio under yet another name, and deleted the original Hollywood tracks, keeping only the imported audio.  Never lose your original source tracks!   I'm sure you know that. 

This could happen with any virtual instrument or set of instruments.  In my case, my PC was always able to handle things until this project in which Hollywood took it over the top.

If you don't have a ton of tracks or any high-demand VIs, then this isn't it.
 
Is that you and your band in the picture?  You had a lot of soft synths on Penny Lane.
#24
JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 13:34:12 (permalink)
Ok the CPU reaches about 75% maximum during playback, so I don't think that's the problem, unless that is too high?

Yeah in fact it is quite an old picture of us, we are only just getting to grips with this new technology......


EDIT: I don't believe that method will affect anything as someone previously said, z3ta+ 1 and session drummer 3 do not use up a lot of CPU.
post edited by JonBoh - 2012/07/26 14:11:50
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synkrotron
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 13:50:53 (permalink)
75% is pushing it...

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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 14:26:18 (permalink)
That is high.

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JonBoh
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 14:36:48 (permalink)
So how can I dramatically lower it? I have already tried simple methods that are meant to lower it, but they don't seem to be making any difference.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 15:08:35 (permalink)
Hopefully Mr Roseberry will be back to guide you further on this.


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Brando
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Re:My Sonar is breaking down..... 2012/07/26 15:24:47 (permalink)
JonBoh


So how can I dramatically lower it? I have already tried simple methods that are meant to lower it, but they don't seem to be making any difference.

Bounce/Freeze often. Audio tracks themselves don't consume a lot of resources but the plugins sure do, especially when you have multiple synths and multiple effects active/open in a project. I would agree with others here that 75% is pushing the limit in terms of CPU use. For tracking, especially with softsynths - use as few active tracks as you need, then for mixing - bounce and work with the audio tracks themselves rather than the instrument tracks containing the softsynths and plugs, all of which consume resources. Develop a workflow that works for you according to your preferences and system limitations.
Also I think increasing your RAM would make a significant improvement for a low investment.



Brando
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#30
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