My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;))

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panup
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2010/12/29 14:19:39 (permalink)

My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;))

- AudioSnap that works properly with multi-tracked drums
- Keyboard shortcuts for Create Track/Bus/Clip Envelope
- Ability to turn Audio Metronome on/off with bind shortcut key
- Clone bus, copy/move automation
- Enter ISRC codes in CD Burner
- Separate default folders for imported and exported audio
- Ability to edit clip boundaries and fades during recording and playback (in theory possible during playback but with danger of dropouts and rude noises)
- Save last used project (in File pulldown menu) immediately after project opened (so that last project is shown in the list after a crash)
- Floating Project Info window
- Updated V-Vocal
- Export Audio / Tracks: Track channels: mono/stereo/SAME AS SOURCE. This way it would be possible to export all track at once if there are both mono and stereo tracks.
- Separate Lock functions for time and position.
- Ability to move clip to another track if it is locked in time. (Not possible because "Lock in time" locks clip to the track.)
- Project Info: support for RTF text.
- Larger dialog window for shortcut key degining so that descriptions can be read in full without extra mouse effort.
- Function to list all plugins used in the project. Optionally list & save their presets in preset files.
- Enhancements for video support. This has been discussed in dozens of threads, so I don't go in details.
- Audio metronome that works properly even if project has tempo changes.
- Dragging clip to new track: copy all track properties, not just some random ones.
- Prevent Guitar Rig changing stereo track to mono in some cases. Especially Guitar Rig because it is bundled.
- Rewire support for 64 bit system. Wrapper? Somehow?
- Freeze All & Melt all plug-ins and/or soft synths with one command.
- Fix track recording preview (Good news: in X1 preview seems to be fixed!)
- More robust looping.
- Sandboxes for plugins so that they can not crash Sonar.
- External Insert: Support for stereo in if send is mono.
- External Insert: allow use all I/O if user wants
- Sublist for input and output lists. Separate sections for mono and stereo I/O.
- Booster plugin: default setting to 0 dB boost. Current 6 dB default setting can do bad things if you add this plugin during playback and happen to listen loud.
- Linear Phase EQ & Compressor: tweaking without output muting (X1 fixed this!).
- Fade in/out editing: if fading unselected clip, selected clips should not be affected.
- Command to reset clip fade.
- Option to name tracks automatically after track name.
- Option to lock tracks automatically in time after recording.
- Ability to use bus output as track input.
- Ability to resample whole project.
- Friendly track names: ability to give names for mono inputs.
- Ability to set user defined inputs and outputs as mono/stereo only (to be removed from mono/stereo i/o lists).
- PDC: existing data on the track should not follow PDC settings.
- Silence: when adding soft synth, audio engine should mute output until synth is completely ready. Currently playback may continue and get muted again for a short while.
- Ability to copy track icon to another track by dragging it.
- Import all mp3 files (some mp3 encoders do files that make sonar give "Out of memory" error).
- Beatscape: follow tempo map.
- Track view grid lines under clips' 'meat' area.
- Nudge tool that does not dropout during playback.
- Separate built-in pan knobs for left and right channel of a stereo track. Actually built-in Channel Tools in more compact form.
- Delete synth: option to remove tracks, too.
- Nested folders. Btw, X1 folder looks is worse than 8.5.3 - no indent for some strange reason.
- Varispeed.
- State of the art reverb plug-in with no compromises.
- Built-in audio editor in the spirit of Cool Edit 2.0.
- New surprises I can not even dream of.
- Logical "Remove from folder". X1: Fixed!
- Import & Export PT9 projects.
- V-Vocal timeline clicking to change now time in Sonar.
- More informative color for AudioSnap Palette on/off button. Green & Red?
- For novice users: System Analyze Tool that warns of high DPC latency, poor audio settings etc.

Well, some (two or three) of my hopes came true. Additionally, ProChannel rocks. Easier envelope editing rocks. I rock (with my new Les Paul after I finish this message.)

My open letter to Cakewalk


Hello Bakers,

Please use enough time for improving and refining existing features
before X2 new features take all your time.

Kind Regards,

Panu

post edited by panup - 2010/12/30 09:35:51
#1

51 Replies Related Threads

    Scott Lee
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 14:23:07 (permalink)
    "Please use enough time for improving and refining existing features
    before X2 new features take all your time. "


    +1000

    Also I'd like to include please revisit some of the old known bugs. We want to software to function properly and as intended before we see a X2. Thank you!

    Best,
    post edited by Scott Lee - 2010/12/29 18:18:39

    Scott Lee (ASCAP)
    SFX Media 
    Song Composer / Engineer / Audio Director

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Dezacrator?feature=mhee

    #2
    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 14:23:26 (permalink)
    Incredibly thorough.
     
    Kudos for that.
     
    And most of which I agree.
     
    Now please don't hold your breath on too many ;)
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #3
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 14:31:59 (permalink)
    BEST POST EVER!!!!


    #4
    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 14:33:08 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    BEST POST EVER!!!!

    Until the NEXT best post ever lol
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #5
    roughly
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 15:37:23 (permalink)
    - Nested folders. Btw, X1 folder looks is worse than 8.5.3 - no indent for some strange reason.


    this could have been the only thing s9 could have done i and would have paid for it. Those of us with big scores projects know this is huge. 

    i really like this in acid and reaper, and in reaper you can add vol/pan/FX to the folders basically giving you a tidy buss/folder track and now in reaper 4 it looks like the users will be able to freeze the folder and what it contains. ---super slick. 

    www.callthecow.com
    #6
    roughly
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 15:38:40 (permalink)
    mike_mccue


    BEST POST EVER!!!!

    AGREED 

    someone send him yo be the project designer at roland !

    www.callthecow.com
    #7
    thegeek
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 15:50:40 (permalink)
    - Track view grid lines under clips' 'meat' area.

    If I understand correctly, there IS such an option
    #8
    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 15:52:48 (permalink)
    thegeek


    - Track view grid lines under clips' 'meat' area.

    If I understand correctly, there IS such an option

    There is.  I've been using it ever since it was introduced.  It's in the Clips Pane options.
     
     

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #9
    panup
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 16:18:05 (permalink)
    ba_midi


    thegeek


    - Track view grid lines under clips' 'meat' area.

    If I understand correctly, there IS such an option

    There is.  I've been using it ever since it was introduced.  It's in the Clips Pane options.


    I ment that grid lines could be visible at the clip's empty area but dive under waveform. Image speaks more than words: Grid Lines.

    Sonar help claims that Grid options are found in Track View / Options / Display / Vertical grid lines but it is actually in Track View / View / Display / Vertical grid lines.


    #10
    panup
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 16:29:22 (permalink)
    roughly

    someone send him yo be the project designer at roland !

    To Roland Japan HQ?
    But I don't like sushi and learning curve of Japan language is almost as high as X1's new features for old Sonarist
    Roland America? Well, country that survived Bush era can't be as bad as one might suspect.

    Learning curve example #426:
    No, delete bus is no more Right-Click & press L. Now it is Right-Click & Press D.
    Cool, D for Delete is more logical than L as DeLete. But who made the first decision to use L as DeLete and not D?
    #11
    Dave Modisette
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 17:36:29 (permalink)
    Cool, D for Delete is more logical than L as DeLete. But who made the first decision to use L as DeLete and not D?
    Have you ever painted yourself into a corner?  Brandon implied that in one of his interviews.  As features were added on to the core program it got to a point where it was apparent that a total rework of the GUI was necessary.  I can see how it would happen.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

    http://www.gatortraks.com 
    My music.
    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #12
    Guest
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 17:45:57 (permalink)
    Am I the only person that wonders why "delete" can't be delete?
    #13
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 17:51:02 (permalink)
    I can easily see how a total rework of a program may have been necessary... but I fail to see how that has anything to with a gui.

    Cakewalk could have written a brand new super streamlined program with a completely new architecture and that could have been happening under the exact same gui we had in v8.5

    I'm not saying that I was in love with the v8.5 gui and I'm not saying I am in love with X1 gui... but factually speaking a gui has very little to do with the behind the scenes programming.

    A program has a Gui, Logic, and Databases.

    The logic and structure of the databases are not dependent on a gui design... that's why it the GUI is simply called an interface.

    I say this simply to clarify that I very much appreciate the idea that the program may be getting more and more efficient, but the rework of the gui simply coincided with that work that I may appreciate. It's coincidental.

    I think Cakewalk did a really bad job on the gui and hope it was because Cakewalk was doing a good job on the program.

    It is not accurate to say that Cakewalk had to make a bad gui just to make the program run better. Cakewalk just did that because it wanted to.

    best regards,
    mike




    #14
    Lynn
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:00:49 (permalink)
    10Ten


    Am I the only person that wonders why "delete" can't be delete?


    LOL!!!

    All the best,
    Lynn

    my songs
    www.soundclick.com/lynnwilson

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    SONARtist
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:15:59 (permalink)
    panup : - Save last used project (in File pulldown menu) immediately after project opened (so that last project is shown in the list after a crash)

    +1000 ...

    Just wanna make a comment on this ...
    In fact, the last project name is not stored in the list until SONAR exits completely and correctly - and what I mean by that is that if you even save the project manually before exiting SONAR, and it crashes on exit, you will still not have your SAVED filename in ANY of the lists ... this is a major programming error in the logic !

    Just another one to add to the pile.

    BTW, great list !  Don't hold your breath though as we already had some great lists before (eratu and co. as one example).
    #16
    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:30:09 (permalink)
    SONARtist


    panup : - Save last used project (in File pulldown menu) immediately after project opened (so that last project is shown in the list after a crash)

    +1000 ...

    Just wanna make a comment on this ...
    In fact, the last project name is not stored in the list until SONAR exits completely and correctly - and what I mean by that is that if you even save the project manually before exiting SONAR, and it crashes on exit, you will still not have your SAVED filename in ANY of the lists ... this is a major programming error in the logic !

    Just another one to add to the pile.

    BTW, great list !  Don't hold your breath though as we already had some great lists before (eratu and co. as one example).

    Oh man, this one has annoyed me forever!   Why it doesn't store the filename after opening it just baffles me.
    Again this is one of those non-showstopper, tiny little things that happens often enough to be a toothache.  Enough toothaches add up to a feeling.
     
    And, if you happen to work like I do, where I create a name like "now 122910-1" (date) or "now it's a nice groove" for my "in progress/just starting it" project, and if you crash and shut down (out of frustration) and come back tomorrow... you better remember where you were and what you were thinking.
     
    This entire "incomplete-ness" groove that Sonar has in many areas do add up to a lot of little toothaches.
     
    In balance, of course I want to add it has many strengths as well (just so others don't think I'm bashing it here!).
     
    They are not mutually exclusive, however.
     
     
    post edited by ba_midi - 2010/12/29 18:48:04

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #17
    keith
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:34:29 (permalink)
    ba_midi

    tootache
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    You're like a dot-oh release of a new sonar version. Been using X1 too much, ba? Maybe time for a break. Just sayin', as the sayin' goes.

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    A1MixMan
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:36:58 (permalink)
    SONARtist


    panup : - Save last used project (in File pulldown menu) immediately after project opened (so that last project is shown in the list after a crash)



    What would be even better than this is to fix the crashes...

    A1
    #19
    Lanceindastudio
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:42:37 (permalink)
    Good Post, very specific and completely accurate to what is needed.

    In order to get Sonar truly up to date perfect, I think it may need a ground up rewrite, not just polishing and code changes.

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    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:45:39 (permalink)
    keith


    ba_midi

    tootache
    toothaches
    toothaces 
    You're like a dot-oh release of a new sonar version. Been using X1 too much, ba? Maybe time for a break. Just sayin', as the sayin' goes.
    Thanks for pointing that out, Keith   I forgot to spellcheck :)
     
     
    There -- fixed it.  Can I please have more X1 now? ;) 
      
    Oh I think I'm version 2.x :P
     
     
    post edited by ba_midi - 2010/12/29 18:48:54

    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #21
    panup
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 18:55:20 (permalink)
    A1MixMan

    SONARtist

    panup : - Save last used project (in File pulldown menu) immediately after project opened (so that last project is shown in the list after a crash)


    What would be even better than this is to fix the crashes...
    You are probably alone with your opinion

    Or not. I came back to this forum to have a break after I had edited wrong project version for and hour.
    Yesterday's last version was not in File/last used because Sonar had crashed with Melodyne x64.
    I really need this feature.
    #22
    A1MixMan
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:00:58 (permalink)
    Yes, whichever file is holding the info for the recent projects should be updated when the project is OPENED. Not after the whole app is closed as is the case now. I'm sure this has affected every user at some point. Seems like something minor to focus on, but then again there seems to be alot of little things that need attention. This though, seems like it could be an easy fix.

    A1
    #23
    panup
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:07:27 (permalink)
    I thank you all for your positive comments. I appreciate. 

    But where is the message from Mr. Cakewalk  saying "We decided to cancel our X2 roadmap and implement your list as is. And you get 2% discount of the next Sonar version." 
    #24
    ba_midi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:09:21 (permalink)
    A1MixMan


    Yes, whichever file is holding the info for the recent projects should be updated when the project is OPENED. Not after the whole app is closed as is the case now. I'm sure this has affected every user at some point. Seems like something minor to focus on, but then again there seems to be alot of little things that need attention. This though, seems like it could be an easy fix.


    It's actually stored in the registry.



    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

    http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
    Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
    Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
    #25
    D K
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:10:19 (permalink)
    Great Post panup,

    See lots of stuff in here that is very desirable

    some that have been asked about for a long time

    Below are some I really like...there are others as well..sadly... I'm not holding out much hope for any of them

    Clone bus, copy/move automation
    Freeze All & Melt all functions with shortcut key
    External Insert: Support for stereo in if send is mono. 
    External Insert: allow use all I/O if user wants 
    Sublist for input and output lists. Separate sections for mono and stereo I/O.
     
    ..and to add one - Free routing - meaning NO restrictions track & bus routing or layout 



    post edited by D K - 2010/12/29 19:16:09

    www.ateliersound.com
     
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    #26
    SONARtist
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:17:46 (permalink)
    @ Billy : And, if you happen to work like I do, where I create a name like "now 122910-1" (date) or "now it's a nice groove" for my "in progress/just starting it" project, and if you crash and shut down (out of frustration) and come back tomorrow... you better remember where you were and what you were thinking.

    Yes, I work similarly as I tend to give tunes a proper name later, and time is wasted searching ...
    But really .. how could anyone with "development experience" come up with the logic to save the project name just before exiting SONAR, and completely disregard your (manual) save beforhand ?

    @A1MixMan : What would be even better than this is to fix the crashes...

    Yes, agree.  I'm working with Cake to fix the ones I get regularly ... we'll see.

    @A1MixMan : Yes, whichever file is holding the info for the recent projects should be updated when the project is OPENED

    Best idea !


    #27
    lorneyb2
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:18:59 (permalink)
    SONARtist



    In fact, the last project name is not stored in the list until SONAR exits completely and correctly - and what I mean by that is that if you even save the project manually before exiting SONAR, and it crashes on exit, you will still not have your SAVED filename in ANY of the lists ... this is a major programming error in the logic !

    J
    I suspect this may be a Windows thing as I see exactly the same behaviour in a number of other programs.  It is definitely aggravating but may be a Microsoft problem rather than an internal programming problem.  Either that  or everybody is equally inept at finding a solution for it.


    Sonar Platinum 64bit, Win 8.1 Pro 64bit,  Quad Core 3.2GHz,  16G ram, Edirol FA 101, Nvidia
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    #28
    SONARtist
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:19:46 (permalink)
    @ Billy : it's actually stored in the registry.

    Well, then it should be updated much earlier, like ... er ... on OPEN (unless you get a crash on OPEN :-) !
    #29
    timidi
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    Re:My alternative mindmap 8.5.3- > 9.0 (And my open letter to Cakewalk;)) 2010/12/29 19:23:45 (permalink)
    Yes, whichever file is holding the info for the recent projects should be updated when the project is OPENED. Not after the whole app is closed as is the case now. I'm sure this has affected every user at some point. Seems like something minor to focus on, but then again there seems to be alot of little things that need attention. This though, seems like it could be an easy fix.



    When i get a crash, the first place i go is explorer to see which file is more recent, autosave file or the real file and then open whatever is more recent. just sayin. 
    I do understand the plea here though.


    I also agree with Lance in that "In order to get Sonar truly up to date perfect, I think it may need a ground up rewrite, not just polishing and code changes.  


    great list panup.

    ASUS P8P67, i7-2600K, CORSAIR 16GB, HIS 5450, 3 Samsung SSD 850, Win7 64, RME AIO.
     
    https://timbowman.bandcamp.com/releases
     
    #30
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