My first looper

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bitflipper
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2011/05/13 10:47:36 (permalink)

My first looper

I just bought my first looper. I've always had an aversion to any kind of automated playback on stage, as if doing so would somehow taint the live performance. But I work with a guitarist who uses one well, and figured I'd join in on the fun too.

One of the problems with loopers in the past is that they've all been mono, and I amp my keyboards in stereo. Then I saw the new BOSS looper stompboxes at NAMM and noted the stereo inputs and outputs. Cool. So last night I picked up the least-expensive one, model RC-3, and proceeded to fritter away the entire evening building up multilayered self-jams.

I plan on using it at a gig next week. Anyone have any thoughts on what to do with it?


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    drewfx1
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 11:56:10 (permalink)
    I don't know about the gig, but for a looper like that with a USB interface, I recommend leaving it connected to your rig at all times within easy reach for recording ideas with just a press of your foot.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #2
    Jonbouy
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 12:45:29 (permalink)

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    bapu
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 12:48:29 (permalink)
    Does it loop an Am note?

    That could be a boon for me.
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    Starise
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 12:53:15 (permalink)
      They are really cool. I attempted to demo one of those in GC a few months back but as usual it was so loud that I couldn't hear myself think.

     Phil Keaggy comes to mind as one of the best users of this this type of thing there are IMO. Maybe that is because he is also one of the worlds foremost guitar players.

      From listening to your music stuff I can see you are very imaginative and creative. Plug it in and have at it man! No telling what you might end up with!

      I have briefly used the looper in my HD500 and I am not taking naturally to it. I need to delve a little more into the "stops" "starts" etc... Hope you have better luck than I have so far!

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    space_cowboy
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 13:34:52 (permalink)
    I have the electro harmonix 2880 which allows you to lay down as many as 4 tracks and has a quantize feature so that when you kick the button it stops exactly in line with whatever bpm you have set up.  It is awesome.  

    Some people call me Maurice
     
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    craigb
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 13:59:30 (permalink)
    I've heard lots of good things about that EH unit.  I used to have a looper on my Line 6 Echo Pro, but since I suffer from LOFT* it wasn't of much use to me.
     
     
     
     
    * Lack Of Flippin' Talent

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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    bitflipper
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 14:38:20 (permalink)
    My biggest problem is that it requires foot coordination, which I lack. I can't dance, can't play drums, either. I'd have an easier time learning to juggle than to work hi-hat and kick drum pedals at the same time.

    But it sure is fun. I spent a good half hour this morning jamming to the chord progression from "Take it To the Limit". I'm also having a good time with percussion experiments and have discovered some useful drum patches on my synth that I didn't even know were there.

    I really should do some real work today. Later. Yeh, later, for sure.



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    DerGeist
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 17:04:38 (permalink)
    Anybody have any luck live looping with a drummer? Play guitar riff once recording it as a loop, start the loop, play over the loop etc. all the while the drummer maintains the beat.
     
    I just can't make the loop work in a way that doesn't eventually knock us off time. I think my loop recording accuracy is not all it could be.
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    space_cowboy
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 17:18:05 (permalink)
    Well as a guitar player, you do not have to do quite as much as a drummer.  You still have one leg to stand on most of the time.  

    Its just when you want to turn the echo off, put the distortion on, rock the wah wah and punch in the vibe pedal, you need to be an octopus.  And if you need to change settings while you are doing all of that, you also need to be shiva so that you have an excess of arms.

    Maybe that is how I can make my fortune.  I will create an 8 legged, 10 armed shredder who will play a quadruple neck (guitar, bass, 12 string and ukulele) while he constantly adjusts settings on his pedal board.  

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    craigb
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 19:10:25 (permalink)
    DerGeist


    Anybody have any luck live looping with a drummer? 

    Never had to.  All of the drummers I've known, except one (just so none of them get personally offended ) were loopy to begin with.

     
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    bitflipper
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/13 19:51:55 (permalink)
    Anybody have any luck live looping with a drummer? Play guitar riff once recording it as a loop, start the loop, play over the loop etc. all the while the drummer maintains the beat.

    I know it can be done, because I've seen it done. I can't say I know what the trick is, though, as I haven't yet mastered it myself. But watching it being done properly, it appears to be a matter of hitting the footswitch exactly on the beat. Otherwise, the looper tacks on (or loses) a few milliseconds that only become noticeable after the loop has repeated a few times.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    Starise
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 09:00:52 (permalink)


      The looper in my HD500 does have a tempo button foot switch. Not sure if it can be midi driven yet,if so that would make it easier to get into a mix accurately I would think.

      I would venture to guess that most successful loop players are not quite as spontaneous as it might first appear. I had a lot of fun goofing around, for me so far thats all its been though.

     The electro harmonix seems to have an advantage.

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    Old55
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 10:29:46 (permalink)
    I don't know which unit she's using, but K.T. Tunstall does a good job of using some sort of a looper on "Black Horse & The Cherry Tree" when she does it solo.  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYEU91d8ngc

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    bitflipper
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 13:59:03 (permalink)
    Thanks for the link, Jan. It's amazing what you can do with an A minor chord with enough repetitions.

    This looper has encouraged me to develop a novel new methodology: I call it "practicing". Haven't done it for years! What a revelation.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    craigb
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 14:44:56 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    It's amazing what you can do with an A minor chord with enough repetitions. 


    Sheesh!  Bapu could have told you that!


     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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    UbiquitousBubba
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 14:47:06 (permalink)
    Yes.  The myth of "Enough Repetitions". 

    Selecting a finite number may be wise...
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    Old55
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    Re:My first looper 2011/05/16 15:48:14 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    Thanks for the link, Jan. It's amazing what you can do with an A minor chord with enough repetitions.

    This looper has encouraged me to develop a novel new methodology: I call it "practicing". Haven't done it for years! What a revelation.


    You're very welcome Bit.  It impressed me how she set up the structure of the song to do all of that in Am.  I originally saw another clip where the intro was longer and--while she didn't actually stop to explain what she was doing--it was almost like a demonstration.  I'll have another look to see if I can find that clip. 

    Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
     
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    Starise
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 13:17:01 (permalink)
       After a year I finally put in some time to learn the looper. The one I use will let you change tones in the same box as the looper. I can play a clean rhythm in the looper and then change to a dirty part for the lead. Really cool stuff,just a shame it took a year to put the time in to figure out.
     The looper in the HD500 is 48 seconds long. So far I haven't been able to include a verse and a chorus. A great idea box though. I was able to get some decent jams going. The trick is to have a simple backing part with a lower volume than the lead part. I have also found that the lack of quantization helps me with my timing skills.



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    dmbaer
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 13:43:30 (permalink)
    bitflipper


    Thanks for the link, Jan. It's amazing what you can do with an A minor chord with enough repetitions.

    This looper has encouraged me to develop a novel new methodology: I call it "practicing". Haven't done it for years! What a revelation.

    If you haven't done so already, check this one out:
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izrL7pBdkaw
     
    A fellow with the ID TobyC posted the link in the X1 forum a few weeks ago.  The young lady, who's vastly talented, is Toby's daughter.  He said she got so involved when working this number up that her foot became injured ... a cautionary tale, I guess.
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    Starise
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 13:47:33 (permalink)
     Sorry guys. I thought I had posted this in techniques.

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    ToneCarver
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 15:05:55 (permalink)
    Congrats on entering the wacky world of looping Dave. Delays and loopers have been my most interesting and inspiring tools over the years. I've spent many many hours layering up looped material, jamming, and just "going with the flow" as the loop warps and evolves. Be sure to check out this site of you haven't yet: http://www.loopers-delight.com/loop.html. You'll get lots of opinions about gear, performances, some info on techniques, etc.
     
    For me looping tended towards slowly evolving soundscapes more than jamming over chord progressions. Sometime I would start with a progression or a simple beat as a metronome to set the starting pace then let that fade out or get overlayed by new material as the mood dictated. It does take a bit of practice to get the footswitch timing just right on the loops with tight timing but the effect is cool.
     
    I'd recommend putting some switchable effects between your sound source and the looping device so you can introduce effects on new layers if you want to. That helps to vary the texture of the loop. I am not familiar with your looper so I don't kow hat features you may or may not have but make sure you explore the options that it offers for capturing and playing back the audio, punch in, overlay, etc. If it has individual layers that can be recorded, muted, unmuted that brings all kinds of compositional control. Don't forget the reverse and speed-changing options too - much fun can be had with those.
     
    For me longer notes and slower tempo pieces worked better than uptempo material. My favorite gear for looping is an electric guitar, some foot pedals - including at least 1 delay pedal, and the almighty ebow . I haven't done much looping lately on the keyboard but was just looking at Mobius looper http://www.circularlabs.com/ again and thinking it might be just the thing to kick start the creative juices.
     
    Anyway, sorry for the tome, back to your original question. For live use, the best thing I can say is that looping, for me, is all about personal abandon and has been best received by others when I can let go and get completely into what I am doing - if I am liking the groove then it tended to be interesting to others.
     
    Have fun.
     
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    bitflipper
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 15:56:07 (permalink)
    As I write this, my looper currently sits on my desk where it has been gathering dust for the past 3 or 4 months. It would have been sitting there longer but I'd lent it to a friend who'd had it for several months prior. Sadly, once the initial novelty wore off I subsequently found little use for the device. 

    Every so often I think I should probably just find it a good home via Craigslist. But I hold out hope that someday I'll remember why on earth I bought the thing in the first place and resurrect it. Thanks to your words of encouragement, today just might be the day it gets dusted off again.


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    bapu
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 16:05:10 (permalink)
    Mebee you can looper some cool sounds with some Neal Peart grooves, yes?
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    Mesh
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 16:11:09 (permalink)
    bapu


    Mebee you can looper some cool sounds with some Neal Peart grooves, yes?



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    Beagle
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 16:28:51 (permalink)
    bapu


    Mebee you can looper some cool sounds with some Neal Peart grooves, yes?


    mebee he can loop up something to allow him to become a Jazz Organizt!!!

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    bitflipper
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    Re:My first looper 2012/05/31 18:22:29 (permalink)
    Yeh, it's a little-known fact that Jimmy Smith was just playing loops. We all thought he was doing bass parts on those pedals.


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    Starise
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    Re:My first looper 2012/06/01 13:48:05 (permalink)
     I think you will find it pleasantly interesting once you get the hang of it Dave.

    Phil Keaggy uses loopers all the time in a live setting. If you can get past the fact that he is demoing a new Roland amp with a looper,check out some of what he does with it. Incredible stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq30Y1VgD4c

    dmbaer- she is one very talented girl! Thanks for that link.

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    #28
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:My first looper 2012/06/01 13:56:00 (permalink)
    this is a NC looper




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