My weakest link?

Author
fep
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1186
  • Joined: 2006/10/21 13:57:09
  • Location: San Diego, California
  • Status: offline
2006/10/21 14:12:05 (permalink)

My weakest link?

Christmas is coming up and I'm trying to figure out what Santa should bring.

I have a suspicion about my weakest link but I'd like some educated suggestions on what is the most important next piece of equipment.

Background, I'm a hobbyest songwriter, composer, arranger. I record midi from a Keyboard, and audio guitar and vocals.

My basic setup:

Computer - Dell Pentium 4 CPU 3.40 GHz, 1.00 GB RAM
Software - Cakewalk Home Studio XL
Soundcard - Soundblaster Live 24
Mixer - Yamaha MX 12/4
Keyboard - Ensonic TS-12
Mic - Shure SM 57
Various Guitars, Congas, Bass Guitar

I think that all seems fairly well matched in quality but now what seems to me to be real silly is -

I'm going out of my mixer with Two 1/4" adapters to RCA's to an adapter to mini 1/8" stereo a skinny little cord to the mini 1/8" stereo input in the Soundblaster Live 24 sound card... And that seems to me to be the weakest link.

Thoughts and suggestions please.

Thanks in advance and you all have a great forum here.

Frank
post edited by fep - 2006/10/21 14:28:52
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    jeffb9363
    Max Output Level: -78 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 642
    • Joined: 2003/11/08 04:47:54
    • Location: Devon, England
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 14:53:29 (permalink)
    Your Soundblaster Live IS the weak link.

    You ideally need something with jack inputs/outputs.

    You could easily get something far superior to the SB for less than £50 on ebay.

    Studio:
    X1P on Q9550 @ 3.4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR3. W7 x64. MOTU 1296, 2408 Mk3. TC-Helicon Voiceworks. BCF2000. 
    Stage:
    Cantabile Performer 2 on E8600 @ 4Ghz P45 8Gb DDR2. W7 x64. 2408 Mk3, TC-Helicon Harmony-M.
    #2
    OffAnAirplane
    Max Output Level: -63 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1386
    • Joined: 2005/05/12 13:25:26
    • Location: Houston, TX
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 15:01:29 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: fep

    Christmas is coming up and I'm trying to figure out what Santa should bring.

    I have a suspicion about my weakest link but I'd like some educated suggestions on what is the most important next piece of equipment.

    Background, I'm a hobbyest songwriter, composer, arranger. I record midi from a Keyboard, and audio guitar and vocals.

    My basic setup:

    Computer - Dell Pentium 4 CPU 3.40 GHz, 1.00 GB RAM
    Software - Cakewalk Home Studio XL
    Soundcard - Soundblaster Live 24
    Mixer - Yamaha MX 12/4
    Keyboard - Ensonic TS-12
    Mic - Shure SM 57
    Various Guitars, Congas, Bass Guitar

    I think that all seems fairly well matched in quality but now what seems to me to be real silly is -

    I'm going out of my mixer with Two 1/4" adapters to RCA's to an adapter to mini 1/8" stereo a skinny little cord to the mini 1/8" stereo input in the Soundblaster Live 24 sound card... And that seems to me to be the weakest link.

    Thoughts and suggestions please.

    Thanks in advance and you all have a great forum here.

    Frank


    Your Sounbblaster may in fact be your weakest link, but don't worry about the 1/8" connector, and the skinny cable. It's not like you're pushing 20 amps through that cable. In fact it's pushing less than 1/100th of an amp generally. It doesn't take a big wire to handle that tiny amount of current. Oversized wire is modern snake oil. It's useless. There is nothing wrong with an RCA connector or a 1/8" TRS connecter. They don't make any weaker of a connection than a 1/4" TRS. There is less contact area, sure. But how much contact area do you really need to conduct milliamps? Not much. I've got 480 volt motors at work that have smaller wire than some of these monster cables that are made for audio.
    post edited by OffAnAirplane - 2006/10/21 20:00:36

    Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
    #3
    Steve_Karl
    Max Output Level: -50 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2534
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 20:53:26
    • Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 18:01:43 (permalink)
    Soundblaser ... weakest link!

    Steve Karl
    https://soundcloud.com/steve_karl
    SPLAT 2017.01
    #4
    beatrack
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 71
    • Joined: 2005/08/01 20:30:38
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 18:47:30 (permalink)
    Actually...your request seems a tad mystifying.

    You don't mention any particular displeasure with your setup.

    If it sounds good, then keep using it.

    If you want my opinion on what will give a sonic improvement that you will really notice,
    I'd strongly suggest a condenser microphone, especially for the acoustic instruments.

    A '57 is a good mic in it's own right but it lacks the transparency of a good condenser.

    Changing a cord or jack type or even a sound card will be much more subtle.

    Oh....and you really do need a decent pair of monitors if you don't already have them.

    (Actually, its kind of interesting now that I think about it.....those two pieces of gear are what actually
    make contact with air molecules)
    post edited by beatrack - 2006/10/21 19:27:12
    #5
    GPM
    Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 396
    • Joined: 2005/10/07 13:00:28
    • Location: Beautiful Oregon Coast
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 19:23:22 (permalink)
    Yes, buy a set of good monitors and some quality headphones. They will help you a great deal when mixing. There's a lot of discussion regarding soundcards. Check out this: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=864522
    #6
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 19:26:06 (permalink)
    Monitors.

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #7
    Slugbaby
    Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4172
    • Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
    • Location: Toronto, Canada
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 19:55:03 (permalink)
    Monitors first (because you didn't mention any), and a better soundcard second. I thought my SB Live was okay, until I replaced it with a M-Audio 2496. Huge difference!

    Or if Santa has deep pockets, I'm loving Native Instruments Guitar Rig 2, if you're recording guitar-based stuff...
    post edited by Slugbaby - 2006/10/21 20:12:18

    http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
     
    Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
    #8
    zungle
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2745
    • Joined: 2006/02/15 13:00:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 20:54:59 (permalink)
    Monitors

    Mic

    Sound Card............probably w/balanced inputs...............Thats my next move.
    #9
    fep
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1186
    • Joined: 2006/10/21 13:57:09
    • Location: San Diego, California
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 21:05:40 (permalink)
    Thanks all for the feedback, I’m a Newbie/Novice and this is exactly what I was looking for.

    Sorry, that I didn’t mention that I have Infinity Reference 1 monitor speakers and
    Sony MDR-600 headphones.

    OffanAirplane, Thanks for the info regarding cables, I didn’t know that and I won’t be so concerned about thinking I need beefy cables and inputs.

    Beatrack wrote:

    Actually...your request seems a tad mystifying.

    You don't mention any particular displeasure with your setup.

    If it sounds good, then keep using it.


    Good point. I was simple trying to identify weak links on the theory that there might be something in my chain that I could easily change and be happy with the results. My knowledge and ears probably aren’t sophisticated enough for me to articulate any particular displeasure.

    Here’s an analogy; I wasn’t displeased with the sound of my guitar but I recently put new strings on it and the change in the sound was dramatic to me. Can’t describe it too well, I’ll just call it more sparkle. I didn’t know what I was missing.

    I’m going to consider a soundcard 1st and then a condenser mic. I thought I had bought a decent soundcard (SB Live) when I bought my computer a couple years ago. After this thread I googled it and was surprised to see it only costs about $25, lol. Perhaps my weakest leak, definitely my least expensive link (and for $25 dollars it’s amazing though jeez some people pay that for a glass of wine).

    Slugbaby, I think I’ll get the M-Audio 2496, I see it only costs $99 and your computer/software setup is similar to mine which gives me confidence that it should work for me.

    Thanks again to everyone,
    #10
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 21:30:25 (permalink)
    I'm not sure what the Maudio unit offers, but the Emu line will probably sound better.
    The emu 1212m can be had for $150-
    And it can be upgraded to a 1820m for just the cost of the breakout box.
    And/or a behringer ada8000 could be added using the ADAT

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #11
    beatrack
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 71
    • Joined: 2005/08/01 20:30:38
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/21 22:41:55 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: xackley

    I'm not sure what the Maudio unit offers, but the Emu line will probably sound better.
    The emu 1212m can be had for $150-


    I'll second that....good point.

    .....but recording a guitar with a '57 still isn't going to see a dramatic difference.



    post edited by beatrack - 2006/10/21 23:20:19
    #12
    zungle
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2745
    • Joined: 2006/02/15 13:00:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 00:18:37 (permalink)
    I've been using 24/96 for 5 years, it functions well and the drivers are very mature.

    That being said I'd recommend the Audiophile 192 over 24/96 as it has balanced inputs.

    The EMU cards may have a little better converters and some nice virtual mixing options, note... the patch mix could drive a beginner nuts. A little more of a learning curve. Looks like many users like the layout once they have it down.
    #13
    Slugbaby
    Max Output Level: -33.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4172
    • Joined: 2004/10/01 13:57:37
    • Location: Toronto, Canada
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 10:21:42 (permalink)


    Slugbaby, I think I’ll get the M-Audio 2496, I see it only costs $99 and your computer/software setup is similar to mine which gives me confidence that it should work for me.



    And don't forget the Absolut. It's an integral part of any project!

    http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
     
    Dell i5, 16Gb RAM, Focusrite 2i2 IO, Telecasters, P-bases, Personal Drama for a muse.
    #14
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 11:08:41 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: zungle

    I've been using 24/96 for 5 years, it functions well and the drivers are very mature.

    That being said I'd recommend the Audiophile 192 over 24/96 as it has balanced inputs.

    The EMU cards may have a little better converters and some nice virtual mixing options, note... the patch mix could drive a beginner nuts. A little more of a learning curve. Looks like many users like the layout once they have it down.


    I read the manual, it wasn't all that tough. They have improved the manual since I got my 1820m. And Patchmix comes with a Sonar template, I think.

    I would't go with less than the 1820m or 1616m if it was my first Recording audio interface just for the 2 builtin preamps. But the last time I checked, you could start with the 1212m and expand later, and spend about the same amoutn of money for the Emu product.
    Or the ADA8000 and get 8 preamps for $250.

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #15
    zungle
    Max Output Level: -48 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2745
    • Joined: 2006/02/15 13:00:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 12:25:19 (permalink)
    Thats good to know. I'm on the semi hunt for an improved interface from the 24/96.

    I'm gonna have to take a better look.

    How has the driver stability been? My 24/96 has never had so much as a hiccup.

    #16
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 12:39:57 (permalink)
    mileage will of course vary.
    But as of the last update, the EMU forum is pretty much dead.

    http://www.productionforums.com/index.php?f=52

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #17
    fep
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1186
    • Joined: 2006/10/21 13:57:09
    • Location: San Diego, California
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 15:23:14 (permalink)
    I have a follow up question.

    When I'm playing midi tracks they sound much better when I direct the tracks to my ensoniq TS-12 as opposed to the SB live soundcard.

    This discussion has been on the audio recording quality, what about the midi and the effects of upgrading to the Emu or the Eaudio, will there be an improvement in the quality of those sounds also?

    Thanks
    post edited by fep - 2006/10/22 15:41:27
    #18
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 15:39:06 (permalink)
    Recording Audio interfaces do not have synths.

    I don't know what Software you are using, but any Softsynth or Sampler will sound better.
    Basic Softsynths in CW products are Edirol VSC and Cakewalk TTS-1. There are others out there that are much better. Even A free product SFZ will play SF2 format files.

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #19
    fep
    Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1186
    • Joined: 2006/10/21 13:57:09
    • Location: San Diego, California
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 19:55:04 (permalink)
    Thanks for the education xackley, I completely misunderstood where the midi sounds where generated from as I thought it came from my soundcard.

    I'm still confused as it's hard for me to understand how software alone could generate the sound waves. I'm having a hard time getting my mind to get away from thinking that the software is instructing the hardware to create the sounds. I'll just go with accepting what you wrote.

    I'm using Cakewalk Home Studio XL, when I select an output for a midi track I either select "soundfont device" or "Out A USB Midisport 2x2" (which is attached to the ensoniq keyboard). There is a screen that gives me instrument choices that looks like this:

    http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6896/instrumentsmh3.jpg

    I'm using the default but am wondering if I should select one of the others here to get different sound synths/samplers.

    There is another method where you select a sound synth in an audio track and then direct a midi tracks output to the audio track, I learned this in tutorial 8. Here are the soft synths that displayed:

    http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8946/softsynthiv3.jpg

    The sound was good from the VSC DXi soft synth. Is using soft synths like this the general practice?

    I know I'm asking a lot and hijacking my own thread.

    Your help is really appreciated.

    post edited by fep - 2006/10/22 20:15:25
    #20
    xackley
    Max Output Level: -45.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2973
    • Joined: 2004/01/30 09:39:49
    • Location: USA
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/22 20:29:09 (permalink)
    VSC is a start, but not much better than you soundcard synth. Look around for VSTi SFZ on the internet too and sf2 formated files.
    If you have a gig of memory in your pc find the NS_Kit7 and the sfz for it. You will not believe the drum sounds you will get.

    Lots of free pianos and b3 organs out there too.

    I think MrRay is still free, an electric piano
    Organized_trio is a nice organ.

    http://www.ultimatesoundbank.com/demo.html might give you some intereseting stuff.

    Van Gogh, seeing more that a vase of flowers.
    http://www.vggallery.com
    Newer Song "River", let me know if you don't like it.
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=162668
    #21
    jacktheexcynic
    Max Output Level: -44.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3069
    • Joined: 2004/07/07 11:47:11
    • Status: offline
    RE: My weakest link? 2006/10/24 21:08:44 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: fep
    Soundcard - Soundblaster Live 24


    get a real recording card. echo mia midi, maudio audiophile 192...

    - jack the ex-cynic
    #22
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1