NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK

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mattburnside
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2018/10/31 07:25:22 (permalink)

NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK

Hi Guys,
 
I'm currently looking at upgrading the main PC for all my recording needs. I'm running Cakewalk at the moment on the spec you will see below but feel especially when making electronic music with lots of synth plugins that the computer starts to struggle. I'm definitely looking towards the AM4 socket and the Ryzen chip set but wanted some advise before taking the plunge. I'm looking for a good noticeable increase from current performance but hopefully keep costs reasonable as well. Any ideas welcomed and current spec is below.
 
Thanks
 
Current PC Spec
 
AMD A10-7870K Radeon R7 4.09GHz
16 GB RAM
Kingston SV300S37A SSD
Toshiba DT01ACA100 HDD
Windows 10
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 Mk2
 
 
#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    fireberd
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/10/31 10:18:21 (permalink)
    You should consider Intel for the CPU.  Reports from a DAW builder that posts on here that Intel has better (lower) latency and more suited for audio work than AMD CPU's.
     
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    #2
    batsbrew
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/10/31 17:16:57 (permalink)
    i built a brand new pc for sonar,
    then it went t!ts up!!!
     
    LOL
     
    so i went with presonus studio one,
    works great.
     
    my stats:

    Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core
    MSI B250M
    Seasonic SSR-450FM
    G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB(2x8)
    Samsung 960 EVO 250 GB
    Western Digital Mainstream 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
    Asus DVD-RW
    Antec P100
    Asus PCE-N15
     
     
     
     
     
     
    so far, so good!
     

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #3
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/10/31 19:42:53 (permalink)
    Ryzen motherboards have been extremely flaky.
     
    AMD Infinity Fabric architecture benefits from higher RAM speed.
    However, most Ryzen motherboards don't operate stable at RAM speed above 2400MHz.
    I got a motherboard to run RAM at 3200MHz, but it was a massive undertaking.
    Even then, one day, you go to turn on the machine... and it wouldn't post (requiring CMOS to be cleared).
    If you don't mind being in constant "mechanic mode" it's OK.
     
    Running RAM at 3200MHz isn't a huge benefit on the Intel side, but quality motherboards will do so without issue.
     
    Then there were other completely bizarre issues:
    Simultaneous Multi-Threading (Hyperthreading in AMD speak) would disappear after disabling the motherboard's onboard audio.  Yes, you read that correctly.  
     
    Ryzen is great at super heavily multi-threaded tasks (video rendering in particular).
    Many folks don't realize that many processes in a DAW can't be multi-threaded.
    A developer from Image Line explained this in detail (few months back) on the KVR Forums.
    For those times, the lower clock-speed of the Ryzen impedes performance.
     
    Also keep in mind that many apps/plugins aren't fully optimized for Ryzen.
    ie:  On a test project, Boost 11 would make audible clicks on a Kick track (when running Ryzen).
    Same exact project ran Boost 11 completely glitch-free when running an Intel CPU.
     
    For my money, the performance of the i7-8086k (12 processing threads locked at 5GHz) is hard to beat.
    With the right air-cooler, it runs near dead-silent.
    Best of all worlds:  Cost, Performance, Quiet... high clock-speed and 12 virtual cores
     
     
     
     
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #4
    mattburnside
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/01 08:25:31 (permalink)
    Hey guys and many thanks for your comments. Definitely some food for thought giving the Intel chips another go. 
     
    I'm just curious what people thought to the current spec and how much of an upgrade I'm realistically looking at getting if I make the jump or if there's just something not working right in my current setup?
     
    Thanks again guys, can always rely on this forum for some honesty.
    #5
    haydn12
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/03 01:52:49 (permalink)
    Jim,
     
    What is the best air cooler for the i7's now?  Mine seems to get a little noisy when running heavy orchestral sample libraries with most of the cores over 70%.
     
    Jim
    #6
    fireberd
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/03 10:27:06 (permalink)
    I'm obviously not Jim, but I'm using a liquid cooler.  Deep Cool "Captain 120EX" (quiet fan).  My i7 6700K idles around 30 degrees C and rarely goes into the 50's that I've noticed.   Before the liquid cooler, I was using a Noctua with two fans and it idled around 40 degrees C and rapidly went up from there.  The Noctua was "huge" and hit the side cover on my BeQuiet case.
     
     

    "GCSG Productions"
    Franklin D-10 Pedal Steel Guitar (primary instrument). Nashville Telecaster, Bass, etc. 
    ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
    Sonar Platinum/CbB. MOTU 896MK3 Hybrid, Tranzport, X-Touch, JBL LSR308 Monitors,  
    Ozone 5,  Studio One 4.1
    ISRC Registered
    Member of Nashville based R.O.P.E. Assn.
    #7
    stratman70
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/03 16:17:49 (permalink)
    haydn12
    Jim,
     What is the best air cooler for the i7's now?  Mine seems to get a little noisy when running heavy orchestral sample libraries with most of the cores over 70%.
     Jim 

    I am NOT Jim R. either, but........... I have been using Noctua NH-U12P which is an older one but my 8th gen i7 8700 idles at around 31 and under stress never goes very high at all.
    As Fireberd said above, they are pretty big. I am looking at the newest one which is rated as the No.1 aitr cooler today. Noctua NH D-15. It has more hea tpipes than the older model like mine. I really do not need it but the cooler the better imho. 
    I am not knocking liquid coolers. It's just a choice or personal preference....
     
     

     
     
    #8
    haydn12
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/04 02:47:53 (permalink)
    I'm using the Noctua NH-U14S.  Which is quiet when I first turn on the computer.  I have the 8th gen i7 8700 also.  I do have about 140 tracks going with heavy duty Kontakt libraries with quite a bit of scripting.  Could be how hard I'm hitting the CPU!
     
    Jim
    #9
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/04 17:15:07 (permalink)
    I'd check your CPU temps with load at ~70%.
    If they're going high enough to cause objectionable noise with the NH-U14S, it's probably time to move to higher-end liquid-cooling.  Note that liquid cooling doesn't always mean super quiet.  You got fan noise and pump noise... so be mindful of your choice.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #10
    stratman70
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/04 17:23:06 (permalink)
    @Haydn12
    My PC is super quiet with the older NH-U12P-with the 140MM dual fans. Heat is never an issue. I am not a gamer but I do play one game series-since the beginning. Tomb Raider. The last 3 versions get used for benchmarks because they are that intense as far as GPU and CPU. Shadow of the tomb raider is the newest. I have a msi GTX1060 6GB graphics card but temps never go above 56 c. No noise from fans either.
    I am going to get the newest one I mentioned above though. Just because.
     
    BTW. I am sure you know that Jim R knows his stuff so his advice is golden. Also wanted to add that I never get near 140 tracks so thats why I mentioned the game I play at times. Tops for me is maybe 40-50...........usually more like 25.

     
     
    #11
    MarianoGF
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/04 17:51:50 (permalink)
    I have Ryzen 5 with B350 chipset and works great with Cakewalk. Non of those problems I've read in the first page.
    Beyond all, better to know the point of view of Noel Borthwick.

    M-Audio Nova, Behringer DDX 3216, MOTU 2408, Behringer UMC 1820
    AMD Ryzen 5 1600, 16 GB RAM, MSI B350
    Windows 10, Cakewalk by Bandlab
    Alesis M1 Active
    Two ears::.
    #12
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: NEW PC BUILT FOR CAKEWALK 2018/11/05 15:19:54 (permalink)
    MarianoGF
    Beyond all, better to know the point of view of Noel Borthwick.



    Noel is a great wealth of knowledge.
    BTW, I built his last DAW... 
     
     
    Faster RAM is a significant performance boost for AMD's Infinity Fabric architecture.
    I tested every higher-end motherboard available when Ryzen was released.
    NONE would run DDR4/3200 100% rock-solid reliable.
    ie: If you tried to run RAM at clock-speed above 2400MHz, the motherboards would exhibit erratic behavior.
    Disabling onboard audio caused Simultaneous Multi-Threading to stop working.
    If you got a motherboard/RAM combination to boot at 2666MHz or faster, going into the BIOS and adjusting ANY parameter (nothing related to RAM/clock-speed) could cause the motherboard to no longer boot (requiring clearing the CMOS).  This happened many times.
     
     
    In my ~30 years working with computers, Ryzen was by far the sloppiest hardware roll-out I've seen.
    The original Athlon and Athlon II CPUs were not flaky releases... and we used many of them.
     
    Take away faster RAM, factor in the low clock-speed, factor in that many apps/plugins aren't optimized for AMD (see below), factor in no support for Thunderbolt-3, and factor in what's available from Intel... 
    I have no bias for/against AMD or Intel.  I'll use whatever I feel is best for DAW purposes at a given time.
    The i7-8086k is ~$400... providing 12 processing threads at 5GHz.
    Z370 motherboards are rock-solid (will run DDR4/3200 without issue - though it's not a huge performance increase).  With proper cooling, the 8086k is also near dead-silent.
    That's hard to beat.
     
    Boost 11 (plugin) in used one of the Cakewalk project demos "Where Did We Go", will exhibit clicks (on the Kick drum track) running on Ryzen.
    I experienced that first hand.  No audible glitches running Intel (same exact hardware other than motherboard/CPU).
     
    I've been building DAWs professionally for going on 25 years.
    There's no way I'd build a Ryzen based machine for a client.
    If a client is prepping a recording session with Slash... and has to break to call asking why the system won't post, that makes everyone look unprofessional.  That's the type of scenario some of our clients are in... and it's a risk that we can't/won't take.  Granted, most folks aren't under that kind of pressure... but many casual users don't have a lot of spare time.  We try to do everything possible to minimize technology getting-in-the-way.
     
     
     
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #13
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