Helpful ReplyNeed actual advice or thoughts or something....

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julibee
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2012/08/22 12:11:12 (permalink)

Need actual advice or thoughts or something....

About 15 years ago, my Uncle fostered an inner city kid for awhile.  I've never met him, but through Facebook, we've connected, and Lo and behold, we both make music.  Turns out, he has an indie beatz company, and he has been making a living selling beatz on Soundclick. A month or so ago, I did a goofy thing with him, and a few days ago, he contacted me with some news.

He apparently has a contact at MTV who is Supposedly talking with Warner Bros.

So, he dropping an album soon, and asked me to join him for a few songs.  I've sent him a vox track for one song and he's digging it.

Here's the question.... He asked if I'm affiliated with BMI or ASCAP or SESAC.  I'm not. Yet.  So, I start looking into it, and very quickly run into conflicting bits of advice.  I don't pretend that this will actually lead to anything, but it MIGHT and so.... 

Would you join any of these if you were small time indie, doing dubstep/triphop??? They seem to cater to different genres, and there are lots of opinions online stating that one co. Is better than another for a different genre, that unless it's picked up by a major artist, it's worthless to be a member, etc... But I'm coming at this as both the writer AND performer, and I haven't seen anything yet that addresses my situation.

To complicate matters, I'm also involved with a band in Sweden which hopefully will be releasing soon as well, and I understand that there are different publishing companies in different countries.  Can I belong to both BMI/ASCAP/SESAC and also a foreign entity? What's the best way to go about this?

Head explodes.

What say you Pros?

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Soundcloud     www.juliannamcduffie.com
#1
craigb
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 12:46:10 (permalink)
While waiting for the "Pros" to answer, I'll chime in with a "Wow, sounds like this has some great potential for you - good luck!"

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 12:52:54 (permalink)
According to their FAQ page, BMI only tracks performances inside the US.  http://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/does_bmi_live_track_performances_outside_of_the_us

ASCAP does track performances outside the US as well as inside.  (This article is a couple of years old.)  http://www.ascap.com/playback/2010/04/features/ascap_answers.aspx

You can share songwriting credit with other artists who are members of other Performing Rights Organizations (PRO).  http://www.newindustrytips.com/tag/songwriter/

I'm not saying any of this is advice or a thought.  It might qualify as Something, though.  If so, I hope that helps.
#3
julibee
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 13:03:56 (permalink)
Thanks, Bubba... That looks like actual information there.  Don't worry, though... I won't tell anyone you helped me.  ;)

Yeah, Craig... We'll see.  I'm not going to get too excited about it.  It's fun though, and that's the main thing. Taj (my "cousin") is making some really out-there stuff.  He has an interesting sense of beat.  I can't quite describe it... You'll see what I mean when it's out there.  I'll link it.

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#4
Old55
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 13:44:19 (permalink)
I hope it works out.  Good luck, Jules.

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
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#5
bapu
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 14:03:27 (permalink)
I won't do you the dis service of helping you in even the slightest way (since I can't anyway), so I'll spare you having to remember that you won't tell anyone. You can carry on as usual.


OK seriously, that is great news Jules. You deserve it, whatever it is.
#6
Guitarhacker
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 16:06:14 (permalink)
Julibee...

NO... you can not join more than one. Pick one and it's your PRO for life. You can actually change if you want to, but it's not very often that anyone does. You can co-write with anyone from any other PRO without any problem..... but only ONE of the writers should register the song with their PRO..... it should not be double registered, as that simply causes problems that have to be sorted out. 

There is no need to join a foreign PRO. Actually, I am not 100% sure, but I think you can only join a PRO in your country of residence. If you hook up with lets say BMI, and your buds are in some Swedish PRO, the proceeds will be split according to the laws in the country on performance and they will send the bux back to BMI who will make sure you are paid.

NOW.... the real question is if you even need to join a PRO.... PRO's are for composers and writers of songs. They are the people who collect the PERFORMANCE royalties from concerts, clubs, internet,  TV and radio play of the music in their home country. They pay the writers and the publishers who are the owners and writers of the music. Generally a 50/50 split of the net. 

An Artist, who is simply an artist does not really need to join the PRO since an artist would be paid for their performance in generally one of two other ways. Mechanical royalties would be paid to the artist from sales, which are paid by the record company, not the publisher or PRO. An artist might also be paid on a session basis. One set fee, signed off with a waiver of rights and done. 

So unless you are a writer of the music, or the existing writer is giving you a cut of the ownership.... I don't believe a PRO membership would be useful to you. 


Oh yeah: some other advice. no matter what.... do not pay anything out of your pocket..... it should not cost you a dime. If the request comes in for money to "help with this or that" run. 

and..... for a songwriter....joining BMI, ASCAP, or SESAC is FREE. 

I have been with BMI for many years.  They all handle all genre's these days. Back in the day BMI used to be more country orientated..... but times have changed. 

post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/08/22 16:10:03

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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 16:18:07 (permalink)
See?  Just like that, someone shows up who knows stuff. 

That freaks me out.
#8
julibee
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 16:24:30 (permalink)
Herb, I am writing it.  The lyrics, anyway (and singing). And I'm glad you said what you did about BMI and overseas... Because the info I found said that only ASCAP collaborated like that.  Of course, I think that was at the ASCAP site.

So... the mechanic royalties will be partly mine as the artist/singer (beats y Taj and his crew) but I think I'll also need to do the songwriter half with a PRO as well as copyright some stuff.... 

Make sense?  

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Soundcloud     www.juliannamcduffie.com
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Mooch4056
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 16:33:14 (permalink)
Good luck 


Don't mess it up ...it took the Beatles until the 1980s to fix stuff they signed in the 1960s 

Doesn't sound fun

But the music making your doing sounds awesome 

From Now On Call Me Conquistador! 
 
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#10
57Gregy
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 21:39:56 (permalink)
I think if you are a contributing writer, you should join a PRO, especially in a partnership like you described. Even if he is a relative, kinda.

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#11
craigb
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 22:38:53 (permalink)
Or kinda relative?

 
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
#12
julibee
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/22 23:48:00 (permalink)
He's both, oddly enough. ;)

And, it was HIS suggestion that I join one, he's not claiming exclusivity or anything... I don't think he's shady at all, really.

She who must be obeyed. ***New and Improved with a Scarlett 8i6!***
Soundcloud     www.juliannamcduffie.com
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Jonbouy
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 09:21:48 (permalink)

Here's the question.... He asked if I'm affiliated with BMI or ASCAP or SESAC. I'm not. Yet. So, I start looking into it, and very quickly run into conflicting bits of advice. I don't pretend that this will actually lead to anything, but it MIGHT and so....


Julibee, Julibee, Julibee!!!

If you look into anything whatsoever on the internet you'll get conflicting opinions.  Would you go to the internet for solutions for a toothache?  No you visit a good dentist.

You are whether you realise it or not a MAJOR talent by any standards, that's not flattery, that is plain simple fact.   You may not pretend that this will actually lead to anything but sooner or later something IS very likely to!

You need some professional representation in your area to cater for both your writing and performing talents, start mailing out to some of the artists you really admire in the field you want to operate in, ask them who represents them and how they go about.  I've found the more successful the artist the more approachable they are, they will mostly welcome your interest.

Network, build up a picture of who's pulling the strings in whatever area that interests you and get on somebody's books.

Stop browsing and start breaking some doors down is my suggestion.  Start rubbing shoulders with those who are already doing it!

http://siamusic.net/

http://twitter.com/shutupolivia

Here's a couple to start with!


post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/08/23 09:32:29

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In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 09:42:34 (permalink)
[Jonbouy knows stuff.  I'm totally freaking out right now.]

This is why some are some are good at what they do and others have nonsensical names and ridiculous avatars.  By the way, did you know that a toothache can be an indication that you were previously abducted by aliens?  I read that on the Internet.
#15
Karyn
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 09:50:14 (permalink)
I have real bad toothache (or real good, depending on how you quantify toothache. Eitherway, it hurts like hell...)

Jules, get yourself registered with your local PRO.  As JB said, ask advice from others in the same or similar field to you,  the bigger the better.

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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 09:53:45 (permalink)
The next time I'm abducted, I'll talk to them about your toothache. 
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 10:04:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
julibee


Herb, I am writing it.  The lyrics, anyway (and singing). And I'm glad you said what you did about BMI and overseas... Because the info I found said that only ASCAP collaborated like that.  Of course, I think that was at the ASCAP site.

So... the mechanic royalties will be partly mine as the artist/singer (beats y Taj and his crew) but I think I'll also need to do the songwriter half with a PRO as well as copyright some stuff.... 

Make sense?  

Yep.....OK.. so as a co-writer of the song, you DO want to join the PRO.  ASCAP and BMI are the 2 biggies for US writers.  Either one is fine. Both do the same thing. Joining either is totally free and can be done on line at their web site.  You want to write your CAE/IPI number down and your co-writer will need this if he is registering the song with the PRO. That's kinda like your SSN in the PRO world. It's how they track where the money goes. 

You would decide between the two of you, which one of you will register the song with the PRO and copyright office. I'm thinking he will do that as the record company. (Indy label) Copies of the paperwork should be sent to the other (non-registering) writers so they have records of those registrations. The song gets registered with the PRO one time by one of the writers, and the same thing applies on the copyright. No duplicate registrations. The person who registers it puts your name on the copyright as a writer and puts your name on the PRO registration as a writer and designates the percentages you will get paid on that PRO form. Keep each song's records in a unique file folder or manila folder. Keep all papers relating to the project in one place. 

Now... the cool thing is... if this is a self published project.... Indy label.... and he feels generous or you are involved with the publishing end of the biz.......in other words, where there is really no outside/third party "publishing company" involved..... the percentage that would normally go to the publisher from the PRO gets to be distributed to the writers.... self published.....so essentially, and under ideal conditions, each writer ends up with 50% of gross royalties...... not 25% like in a normal publishing deal. 


The mechanical royalties that would be paid to you based on sales would be a matter of the agreement you have (in writing) with the record company (your relative) 


The PRO split for most co-writers should be 50/50 or even shares for 3 or more writers.  Remember that a publishing company will get 50% (usually) of the gross performance royalties.  The other 50% is paid to the writers and if there are 2 writers ... you get half of the writers share or 25% of gross. Remember that you will generally get the GROSS amount paid to you and YOU are 100% responsible to pay the proper and timely taxes due to the governmental agencies on your share of the money. 


Other percentages are possible. Some publishers and music libraries demand 60% or more, leaving the balance to the writers. And some writers insist on percentages that reflect actual contribution to the song. I have always believed that when anyone  contributes to a song as a writer, they should get equal shares with the other writers. 


My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


BMI/NSAI

"Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
#18
julibee
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 12:23:01 (permalink)
Jonbouy



Here's the question.... He asked if I'm affiliated with BMI or ASCAP or SESAC. I'm not. Yet. So, I start looking into it, and very quickly run into conflicting bits of advice. I don't pretend that this will actually lead to anything, but it MIGHT and so....


Julibee, Julibee, Julibee!!!

If you look into anything whatsoever on the internet you'll get conflicting opinions.  Would you go to the internet for solutions for a toothache?  No you visit a good dentist.

You are whether you realise it or not a MAJOR talent by any standards, that's not flattery, that is plain simple fact.   You may not pretend that this will actually lead to anything but sooner or later something IS very likely to!

You need some professional representation in your area to cater for both your writing and performing talents, start mailing out to some of the artists you really admire in the field you want to operate in, ask them who represents them and how they go about.  I've found the more successful the artist the more approachable they are, they will mostly welcome your interest.

Network, build up a picture of who's pulling the strings in whatever area that interests you and get on somebody's books.

Stop browsing and start breaking some doors down is my suggestion.  Start rubbing shoulders with those who are already doing it!

http://siamusic.net/

http://twitter.com/shutupolivia

Here's a couple to start with!
You guys ARE my Dentists!!! But, what you're saying is that I need a Specialist.... Ok.  I'll do that.  JB, thank you forever. I respect your abilities so highly... 


She who must be obeyed. ***New and Improved with a Scarlett 8i6!***
Soundcloud     www.juliannamcduffie.com
#19
julibee
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 12:24:37 (permalink)
Herb, THANKS.

She who must be obeyed. ***New and Improved with a Scarlett 8i6!***
Soundcloud     www.juliannamcduffie.com
#20
Guitarhacker
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 14:28:52 (permalink)
glad to be of service.   

Of course, when you join the PRO, you can also ask them detailed questions and they will likely point you to their web site FAQ section. 
Poke around in the PRO web site to learn about the business end of the business. 

Another nice source to read on this is... or was called This Business of Music. It explained all that stuff in more agonizing detail than you could possibly want to know..... obviously written by a lawyer. 


My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


BMI/NSAI

"Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
#21
UbiquitousBubba
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Re:Need actual advice or thoughts or something.... 2012/08/23 14:43:14 (permalink)
I believe it was, but reading it doesn't make you evil.
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